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posted 2 years ago by ghost_of_aswartz 2 years ago by ghost_of_aswartz +28 / -1
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– LarrySwinger 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0
  1. You can clean Intel ME with a USB programmer or RPi + cables, it isn't very hard.

  2. By default it doesn't work over wifi so you don't have to worry about it if you use a laptop in which you never plug an ethernet cable.

  3. Does the ME / PSP have its own address? How is an attacker going to correlate your online identity with it when you use a VPN or Tor? This is a legitimate question, I'm not asking it rhethorically.

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– CrazyRussian 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

You can clean Intel ME with a USB programmer or RPi + cables, it isn't very hard.

That's true, but check a list of supported hardware for me_cleaner (part of coreboot). It is hard to completely remove ME in modern motherboards, because many functions like fan control was moved into ME. Also you could get resets every few minutes or uninitialized onboard hardware like network controller of sound card if you completely clean ME on board that is not suitable.

By default it doesn't work over wifi so you don't have to worry about it if you use a laptop in which you never plug an ethernet cable.

Not shure about laptops with integrated WiFi, those that have WiFi chip soldered on mainboard instead of traditional miniPCI-E card in socket.

Does the ME / PSP have its own address?

It have own MAC/IP independent from what your network card get from OS, sometimes, if AMT is present in BIOS you could change it and make visible. By default it seems to wait for specific packet to appear for networking. Without that packet it will not be visible for external scanners or whatever. ME have direct access to nework controller and ME networking device is not accessible from host, only from outside, so you need 2 computers to play with it.

How is an attacker going to correlate your online identity with it when you use a VPN or Tor?

Intel ME have full access to your computer hardware. So if you have access to Intel ME, then you could just read anything from memory of disk.

However, as far as I understand, to activate (and may be set Intel ME IP address) you need to be in same local network as computer with Intel ME to send activation packet. It is possible that Intel ME networking could be activated by some contents in regular packet destined to your normal IP, since it have access to network controller and could monitor all trafic, but I'm not shure. May be some ME versions could and some couldn't.

I hope efforts of reverse engineereing Intel ME will finally succeed and we will know for shure how it works, at least reverse engineered version. Intel ME uses ARC CPU core, there exist disassemblers and decompilers for that architecture so it is possible to study that crap by yourself.

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▲ 2 ▼
– LarrySwinger 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

It is hard to completely remove ME in modern motherboards, because many functions like fan control was moved into ME. Also you could get resets every few minutes or uninitialized onboard hardware like network controller of sound card if you completely clean ME on board that is not suitable.

A neutralized ME doesn't have an attack surface anymore. The network stack is disabled, so an attacker would need physical access. If that happens, a neutralized ME isn't how he's going to compromise your system.

Not shure about laptops with integrated WiFi, those that have WiFi chip soldered on mainboard instead of traditional miniPCI-E card in socket.

You can replace the built-in wifi chip with an Atheros one to make sure.

Also it's spelt 'sure', not 'shure'.

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▲ 1 ▼
– CrazyRussian 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

A neutralized ME doesn't have an attack surface anymore. The network stack is disabled, so an attacker would need physical access.

We can't be sure about that until ME code will be reverse engineered fully and replaced with something opensource wih same functionality.

While you use proprietary blob of any kind, you are potentially vulnerable.

You can replace the built-in wifi chip with an Atheros one to make sure.

It's not that easy, since Atheros chip will have another pinout and you can't just desolder old one and solder Atheros instead.

Also it's spelt 'sure', not 'shure'.

Thanks. Looks like I fell under brand name imprinting. :)

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▲ 2 ▼
– LarrySwinger 2 points 2 years ago +2 / -0

We can't be sure about that until ME code will be reverse engineered fully and replaced with something opensource wih same functionality.

A neutralized Intel ME has 300 kB of code running, which is too small for a network stack. You don't know what's going on with a black box, so you're assuming the worst, but some things are very unlikely.

It's not that easy, since Atheros chip will have another pinout and you can't just desolder old one and solder Atheros instead.

Is it the norm now to solder wifi chips onto the motherboard? There are still laptops where you can replace it.

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