It was mentioned in this thread that the sexagesimal system was derived from the duodecimal system. I think the order of that is reversed, and this is not a minor point.
That is, the Sumerians used the sexagesimal system in the 3rd Millennium BC, and by my read on the duodecimal system, practical use of that as a numbering system is almost unknown.
This may seem like a pretty pedantic point, but I believe it contains the seed that leads to crucial knowledge.
You see, no one in their right mind with 10 fingers would invent a base-12 numbering system. Let alone a base-60 numbering system. Let alone a base-60 system with no antecedents that just springs up out of nowhere. And then we have the question of why they would dream up gods with extra fingers and give no reason whatsoever.
As alien (<-- haha) as the concept may seen, it seems to me much more straightforward to believe that the "gods" of the Sumerians had--or at least appeared to have--12 fingers, and that they handed the Sumerians their own sexagesimal numbering system, advanced even beyond a base-12 system they might have begun with.
A small point, but really paints a different picture I'd say.
You are spot on, my OP was a bit rushed, just trying to get my inner thoughts expressed in an initial form. You raise interesting nuance and basically express what I was going for, but more accurately to according to “the record”, so thanks.
The post would benefit tremendously from putting these concepts into context, or atleast what we think we know of their context. Namely that these systems seem to have been designed chiefly with regards to astrological measurements and record-keeping. Hence the base-60 system of the deep ancients (where the consideration of the spherical heavens was the primary goal, seemingly, which is facilitated greatly by the base-60 system and its convenience with subdividing spheres/circles) slowly devolving to the base 12 influences seen in the near ancients, which clearly still had great reverence for the heavens but seem to have drifted away from “science” to “religion” for lack of better terms. Almost like a great gift had been passed down to them, but in their youth and naïveté they had forgotten its true value and mechanisms.
Like you say, the only logical system is base-10. The fact that our oldest counting systems used these absurd (in most respects) counting bases indicates clearly, to me atleast, that there was an outside influence at work here.
I completely agree with your sentiment that all the "twelves" we see around us are echoes of long forgotten times. One of the earliest occurrences of such of which I am aware is that the Sumerians gave their deities specific numerical rank (12 ranks for 12 deities):
(Of course, one should use exquisite care in the wording. Perhaps these entities used a numerical ranking system among their "royalty", and the Sumerians simply recorded what they were told about it.)
For some reason, I expected to get blasted with both barrels, so I was delighted to see what you wrote. Thanks for the OP!
It was mentioned in this thread that the sexagesimal system was derived from the duodecimal system. I think the order of that is reversed, and this is not a minor point.
That is, the Sumerians used the sexagesimal system in the 3rd Millennium BC, and by my read on the duodecimal system, practical use of that as a numbering system is almost unknown.
This may seem like a pretty pedantic point, but I believe it contains the seed that leads to crucial knowledge.
You see, no one in their right mind with 10 fingers would invent a base-12 numbering system. Let alone a base-60 numbering system. Let alone a base-60 system with no antecedents that just springs up out of nowhere. And then we have the question of why they would dream up gods with extra fingers and give no reason whatsoever.
As alien (<-- haha) as the concept may seen, it seems to me much more straightforward to believe that the "gods" of the Sumerians had--or at least appeared to have--12 fingers, and that they handed the Sumerians their own sexagesimal numbering system, advanced even beyond a base-12 system they might have begun with.
A small point, but really paints a different picture I'd say.
You are spot on, my OP was a bit rushed, just trying to get my inner thoughts expressed in an initial form. You raise interesting nuance and basically express what I was going for, but more accurately to according to “the record”, so thanks.
The post would benefit tremendously from putting these concepts into context, or atleast what we think we know of their context. Namely that these systems seem to have been designed chiefly with regards to astrological measurements and record-keeping. Hence the base-60 system of the deep ancients (where the consideration of the spherical heavens was the primary goal, seemingly, which is facilitated greatly by the base-60 system and its convenience with subdividing spheres/circles) slowly devolving to the base 12 influences seen in the near ancients, which clearly still had great reverence for the heavens but seem to have drifted away from “science” to “religion” for lack of better terms. Almost like a great gift had been passed down to them, but in their youth and naïveté they had forgotten its true value and mechanisms.
Like you say, the only logical system is base-10. The fact that our oldest counting systems used these absurd (in most respects) counting bases indicates clearly, to me atleast, that there was an outside influence at work here.
Cheers man thanks again for the comment!
I completely agree with your sentiment that all the "twelves" we see around us are echoes of long forgotten times. One of the earliest occurrences of such of which I am aware is that the Sumerians gave their deities specific numerical rank (12 ranks for 12 deities):
How did the ranking system for the Sumerian pantheon work?
(Of course, one should use exquisite care in the wording. Perhaps these entities used a numerical ranking system among their "royalty", and the Sumerians simply recorded what they were told about it.)
For some reason, I expected to get blasted with both barrels, so I was delighted to see what you wrote. Thanks for the OP!