if earth is flat then every account of a 24 hour south sun is a lie.
So we are encouraged to believe, however there are many other possibilities (at least in potentia)!
If the earth is flat, then every observation we record/measure/have occurs on a flat earth, even if that includes a 24hr sun in the arctic and antarctic! Right?
That's a lot of misleading videos on youtube...and not just the time lapse ones but actual scientists talking about their supposed experience.
I find it interesting as well!
There clearly is a model that is observed, and by adding 2+2, anyone can see that a 24 hour sun in Antarctica is not possible
Not really. Hear me out!
First, in a scientific sense - there are no flat earth models whatsoever. The flat earth “models” that exist are more like actual models (like in the sense of model from the phrase “model ship”) / graphic conceptual aids.
Secondly, no models are observed. We make observations and then build models from them! We also don’t use (scientific) models to determine the shape of any object in reality. We use measurement for that!
There is no reason that the world can’t be flat AND the 24 hr sun in antarctica occurs. In fact, if we had confirmed both observations (some researchers conclude this is the case) then our model (assuming we should want to build one) must include both observations! For one possibility, among scores, what if the sun observed in antarctica were a reflection of the sun and not the sun proper? For another, what if there were more than one sun? In imagination, all things are possible.
And the fact that 24 hour sun does not occur proves the earth is not round
Not necessarily! In fact, the best (and only) way to prove the earth is not round is to measure it (not look at objects in the sky!)!
which proves space is fake, which proves Elon is a fucking liar.
There are easier and better ways to prove these two things!
But so are all space programs and astronauts.
That is the simplest option, but sadly not the only one. They could well be closer to victims than to liars :(
I see why we should separate flat earthers from the forums like this, we wake too many people up to the real red pill that people can't handle
I don’t think we should separate them, but I do (largely) think we should discuss such topics in further depth on a more appropriate community.
but also if all of us knew globe was a hoax, we would bum rush the 60th eventually. Too much of a liability. The farmers would have to cull the human herd.
Possibly. If we knew that we were working for the enemy (as conpro concludes/teaches), the first thing we would/should do is stop working for them and serve our families and communities (directly) instead!
I liked it before that. Held on too long.
I feel you :( Nothing gold can stay...
Anyway, I'll stop pushing flat earth truth to this tiny and partially awake conspiracy group by leaving.
I think that would be a mistake, but rather than “push truth” I think we should encourage earnest discussion and study. It is the duty of us few who see to help the others to do the same!
you are NOT prepared for an intellectual discussion on the topic
Perhaps. I never cared much for academics!
its not going to be a productive discussion if i can call bullshit on the first point you make.
I think calling bullshit might be a little premature. My point was that scientific models are built for purpose/use! They are not for understanding, they are not for determining the shapes of physical objects, and as far as I am aware there is no scientific model of a flat earth (what would its purpose even be?). Models are meta-scientific tools built for specific use. All models are wrong, some are useful for finite tasks (and usually for a finite amount of time, to boot).
you dont understand the flat earth model, so you couldn't understand how wrong this statement is and how the sun moves relative to the south rim.
I have seen the graphics/diagrams/videos that, often, depict antarctica as a giant ice ring surrounding the known world. I have seen the depictions of the sun and moon juxtaposed onto them. They are merely speculative depictions - graphical aids to help communicate possibilities. They aren’t maps, they aren’t models, and they certainly aren’t scientific.
If they were correct and scientific, there would still be potential ways for the antarctic 24 hr sun to exist. To say that the model “proves” this and that is to misunderstand, and venerate, a mere graphical conceptual aid.
i agree earnest discussion is great, but most people are not capable of it.
Sadly I think you might be right. However, we all get better when we practice! Flat earth research, in my experience, is largely about building such skills and refining them! I think that most everyone can learn to be a better independent researcher/student and engage in earnest discourse - and that everyone will be made better/more able by doing so!
The model is based on solid scientific evidence and observation
No, it isn’t. It’s largely based on speculation and guessing. Who put together this model? What are their names, and where do they derive their datasets? Who verified/validated their datasets? etc. etc. The flat earth “models” that exist are anything but scientific, and it is important to recognize that in my view. They are merely graphical conceptual aids - possibilities. It is important to study reality, not models!
There is no possible other explaination
Whenever we have such “absolute” thoughts we are typically wrong. More exists in heaven and earth than exists in all of our philosophies. And through imagination, all things are possible. If you can’t imagine another possibility, it is usually a failure of imagination!
As I said before, 2 (of many) possibilities for how the earth could be flat AND the 24 hr sun could exist in antarctica are :
The sun seen in antarctica could be a refraction/reflection of the sun.
There could be more than one sun.
Many who mistake the graphical conceptual aids as models become unduly certain that antarctica is a ring of ice surrounding the world - which in and of itself is a speculation - not a certainty.
How light shines on a sphere is physical proof. If you can't see what I'm saying, then we have more evidence that poeople dont learn from these types of discussions.
Or we have more discussion to have, and more evidence to provide! Communication is difficult, but worth the repeated effort to successfully convey. How light shines on a sphere depends a lot on the light source, and the media it travels through on route to said sphere! Things are not as a cut and dry in my view, however I am interested to learn more about your reasoning and to exchange my own! Hopefully you aren’t too burnt out on talking already!
So we are encouraged to believe, however there are many other possibilities (at least in potentia)!
If the earth is flat, then every observation we record/measure/have occurs on a flat earth, even if that includes a 24hr sun in the arctic and antarctic! Right?
I find it interesting as well!
Not really. Hear me out!
First, in a scientific sense - there are no flat earth models whatsoever. The flat earth “models” that exist are more like actual models (like in the sense of model from the phrase “model ship”) / graphic conceptual aids.
Secondly, no models are observed. We make observations and then build models from them! We also don’t use (scientific) models to determine the shape of any object in reality. We use measurement for that!
There is no reason that the world can’t be flat AND the 24 hr sun in antarctica occurs. In fact, if we had confirmed both observations (some researchers conclude this is the case) then our model (assuming we should want to build one) must include both observations! For one possibility, among scores, what if the sun observed in antarctica were a reflection of the sun and not the sun proper? For another, what if there were more than one sun? In imagination, all things are possible.
Not necessarily! In fact, the best (and only) way to prove the earth is not round is to measure it (not look at objects in the sky!)!
There are easier and better ways to prove these two things!
That is the simplest option, but sadly not the only one. They could well be closer to victims than to liars :(
I don’t think we should separate them, but I do (largely) think we should discuss such topics in further depth on a more appropriate community.
Possibly. If we knew that we were working for the enemy (as conpro concludes/teaches), the first thing we would/should do is stop working for them and serve our families and communities (directly) instead!
I feel you :( Nothing gold can stay...
I think that would be a mistake, but rather than “push truth” I think we should encourage earnest discussion and study. It is the duty of us few who see to help the others to do the same!
Perhaps. I never cared much for academics!
I think calling bullshit might be a little premature. My point was that scientific models are built for purpose/use! They are not for understanding, they are not for determining the shapes of physical objects, and as far as I am aware there is no scientific model of a flat earth (what would its purpose even be?). Models are meta-scientific tools built for specific use. All models are wrong, some are useful for finite tasks (and usually for a finite amount of time, to boot).
I have seen the graphics/diagrams/videos that, often, depict antarctica as a giant ice ring surrounding the known world. I have seen the depictions of the sun and moon juxtaposed onto them. They are merely speculative depictions - graphical aids to help communicate possibilities. They aren’t maps, they aren’t models, and they certainly aren’t scientific.
If they were correct and scientific, there would still be potential ways for the antarctic 24 hr sun to exist. To say that the model “proves” this and that is to misunderstand, and venerate, a mere graphical conceptual aid.
Sadly I think you might be right. However, we all get better when we practice! Flat earth research, in my experience, is largely about building such skills and refining them! I think that most everyone can learn to be a better independent researcher/student and engage in earnest discourse - and that everyone will be made better/more able by doing so!
No, it isn’t. It’s largely based on speculation and guessing. Who put together this model? What are their names, and where do they derive their datasets? Who verified/validated their datasets? etc. etc. The flat earth “models” that exist are anything but scientific, and it is important to recognize that in my view. They are merely graphical conceptual aids - possibilities. It is important to study reality, not models!
Whenever we have such “absolute” thoughts we are typically wrong. More exists in heaven and earth than exists in all of our philosophies. And through imagination, all things are possible. If you can’t imagine another possibility, it is usually a failure of imagination!
As I said before, 2 (of many) possibilities for how the earth could be flat AND the 24 hr sun could exist in antarctica are :
Many who mistake the graphical conceptual aids as models become unduly certain that antarctica is a ring of ice surrounding the world - which in and of itself is a speculation - not a certainty.
Or we have more discussion to have, and more evidence to provide! Communication is difficult, but worth the repeated effort to successfully convey. How light shines on a sphere depends a lot on the light source, and the media it travels through on route to said sphere! Things are not as a cut and dry in my view, however I am interested to learn more about your reasoning and to exchange my own! Hopefully you aren’t too burnt out on talking already!