Ancient Carthaginians really did sacrifice their children
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children
After decades of scholarship denying that the Carthaginians sacrificed their children, new research has found 'overwhelming' evidence that this ancient civilisation really did carry out the practice.
A collaborative paper by academics from institutions across the globe, including Oxford University, suggests that Carthaginian parents ritually sacrificed young children as an offering to the gods.
The paper argues that well-meaning attempts to interpret the 'tophets' – ancient infant burial grounds – simply as child cemeteries are misguided.
And the practice of child sacrifice could even hold the key to why the civilisation was founded in the first place.
The research pulls together literary, epigraphical, archaeological and historical evidence and confirms the Greek and Roman account of events that held sway until the 1970s, when scholars began to argue that the theory was simply anti-Carthaginian propaganda.
The paper is published in the journal Antiquity.
Dr Josephine Quinn of Oxford University's Faculty of Classics, an author of the paper, said: 'It's becoming increasingly clear that the stories about Carthaginian child sacrifice are true. This is something the Romans and Greeks said the Carthaginians did and it was part of the popular history of Carthage in the 18th and 19th centuries.
'But in the 20th century, people increasingly took the view that this was racist propaganda on the part of the Greeks and Romans against their political enemy, and that Carthage should be saved from this terrible slander.
'What we are saying now is that the archaeological, literary, and documentary evidence for child sacrifice is overwhelming and that instead of dismissing it out of hand, we should try to understand it.'
The city-state of ancient Carthage was a Phoenician colony located in what is now Tunisia. It operated from around 800BC until 146BC, when it was destroyed by the Romans.
Children – both male and female, and mostly a few weeks old – were sacrificed by the Carthaginians at locations known as tophets. The practice was also carried out by their neighbours at other Phoenician colonies in Sicily, Sardinia and Malta. Dedications from the children's parents to the gods are inscribed on slabs of stone above their cremated remains, ending with the explanation that the god or gods concerned had 'heard my voice and blessed me'.
Dr Quinn said: 'People have tried to argue that these archaeological sites are cemeteries for children who were stillborn or died young, but quite apart from the fact that a weak, sick or dead child would be a pretty poor offering to a god, and that animal remains are found in the same sites treated in exactly the same way, it's hard to imagine how the death of a child could count as the answer to a prayer.
'It's very difficult for us to recapture people's motivations for carrying out this practice or why parents would agree to it, but it's worth trying.
'Perhaps it was out of profound religious piety, or a sense that the good the sacrifice could bring the family or community as a whole outweighed the life of the child.
'We have to remember the high level of mortality among children – it would have been sensible for parents not to get too attached to a child that might well not make its first birthday.'
Dr Quinn added: 'We think of it as a slander because we view it in our own terms. But people looked at it differently 2,500 years ago.
'Indeed, contemporary Greek and Roman writers tended to describe the practice as more of an eccentricity or historical oddity – they're not actually very critical.
'We should not imagine that ancient people thought like us and were horrified by the same things.'
The backlash against the notion of Carthaginian child sacrifice began in the second half of the 20th century and was led by scholars from Tunisia and Italy, the very countries in which tophets have been found.
Dr Quinn added: 'Carthage was far bigger than Athens and for many centuries much more important than Rome, but it is something of a forgotten city today.
'If we accept that child sacrifice happened on some scale, it begins to explain why the colony was founded in the first place.
'Perhaps the reason the people who established Carthage and its neighbours left their original home of Phoenicia – modern-day Lebanon – was because others there disapproved of their unusual religious practice.
'Child abandonment was common in the ancient world, and human sacrifice is found in many historical societies, but child sacrifice is relatively uncommon. Perhaps the future Carthaginians were like the Pilgrim Fathers leaving from Plymouth – they were so fervent in their devotion to the gods that they weren't welcome at home any more.
'Dismissing the idea of child sacrifice stops us seeing the bigger picture.'
"'Perhaps it was out of profound religious piety, or a sense that the good the sacrifice could bring the family or community as a whole outweighed the life of the child."
It is upon this logic the NPCs give their kid the covid vax....never mind the risk of myocarditis....and never mind they have zero risk of dying from covid...
Not only them, there are many such examples even today in Africa various shaman still sacrifice children for similar reasons. But Mayan, Aztec. Even ancient Europe, and Asia.
If we go back to Abraham as well.
Abraham was a treatise against human sacrifice which was the norm at the time. Which makes it a very bold and progressive move for its day.
It still happens constantly
Child Marriage; infidelity; Death. Sacrifice. Child Slavery; Death. Sacrifice. Punishment; Death. Sacrifice.Child Labour and Education; Death. Sacrifice. All for Islamic beliefs, practices, and customs.
If a child is Blasphemous, what happens. A sacrifice to Islam?
What does the word sacrifice mean? Honestly I wonder, because there's the topic, to some god like Moloch, and there's definition of sacrifice, but I am counting death while a child is sacrificed literally. Example; If a child is bullfighting, is it a sacrifice? It is. The Bull god gains another patron. Seriously now.
Murder is forbidden biblically and almost everywhere with laws, it still happens. People don’t always obey commandments, rules, or laws. What’s your point?
Sacrifice the topic.
Which concluded blood sacrifice, human sacrifice permanently for adherents. The blood and body of Christ as sacraments of wine and bread also allude to this.
So Abraham was a treatise against human sacrifice, and the Lord gave the ultimate sacrifice which fully sealed the practice out of Christianity. When you hear Jesus died for your sins it’s implying that you don’t need to kill yourself, animals, or other humans to get salvation. The Lord picked up the check, paid the bill, and nobody else needs to try and “pay” in that way anymore.
I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t think he’s the definitive word on the demonic by any stretch but I find Aleister Crowley to be quite illuminating on the mind of humans influenced by evil. Here’s what he said that lines up with what you’re saying.
On Abraham, God wanted to make it deliberately clear that they weren’t to do that. It couldn’t be explained away that God permitted it or liked it because God stopped it in the act and said No. For the set up, it wasn’t an unusual request for surrounding cultures, but God wanted to make it clear, He doesn’t do that. God despised the worship of the Baals.
You don’t sacrifice children as restitution for sin and to please God.
God did the reverse. God said His Son would be the sacrificial lamb for all sin. That’s why to honor Jesus and repent is redemption.
In the meantime animal sacrifices were a reminder that the price of sin is death, but God’s rain falls on the good and the wicked. The temporary stay of mercy isn’t a replacement to the final judgement. However one day God would right the wrong. He would become human and show how to live a perfect life. In Him is the way to live as we ought, to love and honor one another and not sin against one another. To honor Him is to recognize our place in the universe. To hope in Him is to long for the world truly restored again to Eden, but this time it will be everyone’s choice to choose good and God’s wisdom over deciding right and wrong as you please. Goodwill for all who dwell there and God and man partnering and ruling together over creation, the birthright He gave us.
It was only after Islam that the belief was stopped. Prior it was widespread in large parts of the World. Greek, Roman etc etc. However there are still slaves today in Islam and it means that the practice is outlawed, but it probably exists openly. Like tribal justice in India outlawed occasionally, but widely practiced. Prior to the British Empire it existed for women and children, Sati, in India and after colonisation for the Globe.
Today in Africa the Belief still exists and is still widely practiced. It has spread to other places like the Caribbean. Other parts of the Globe it happens, Occult, Cannibalism, Religion, Fetishism, Child; Marriage, Slavery, and Labour etc. Sacrifice.
Yes it exists in Islam today stoning to death, sacrifice, all ages. Beheading for another sacrifice. These to Islam, for a belief?
What does Abraham have to with Islam?
Leading forefather?
That’s not correct...
He had an illegitimate son of maid who ran off that becomes the people which worship Islam later. But Mohammad etc started Islam. Based on “visions from an angel” though it was a demon. And the teachings are quite different. The way their god is described is very different. Absolute submission and the conquering of others through war to convert them.
Do they not behead, and stone to death. Blasphemy? Infidelity? Human Sacrifice to Islam. They are offered to Islam for death?
I’m not sure if they did human sacrifice in Islam. It’s probable. But really a lot pedophilia and sodomy and harsh punishments for blasphemy. I’m no fan.
And they never stopped...