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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

I imagine legislation that stopped corporate welfare would have to be enacted but we have a lot of slime politicians on both sides that are bought.

What kind of legislation? I mean, yeah, I agree that most politicians are bought off, but there are some who pledge not to take that money. So even if the politicians are bought off, if we had a set of policies to push, we could pledge to not vote for politicians who we know are bought off. I mean to see the problem all you have to do is look at a list like this: 2020 Top Oil & Gas Contributions Recipients

That's an interesting site, you can peruse any sector. It helps make sense of things elected politicians do that don't seem to make sense. When you follow the money, it makes sense.

People on the Donald suggest if you buy from amazon to go deeper and buy from a seller not from amazon warehouse if you buy online.

I just don't buy from Amazon. And that can help, but it isn't really a solution. I know that Bernie Sanders worked with Amazon workers to get higher wages, but the working conditions are still horrible.

. I am not against all rich people though and don’t think they are the sum of the problems. A lot of people have just gotten lazy and used to the way we live. People don’t go out and stay in ordering online. I know of someone who got a new washer and dryer and the payments ended up too much so they are going to get on welfare to make more to afford it but they refuse to shop at a thrift store or second hand store

I don't think it's about being for or against rich people. I think it's more about a system that makes it very easy for the rich to get richer even without doing anything at all while the poor, and I'll say, the working poor, pretty much stay stagnate. That's not a natural thing, that's a system that has been created. It's manmade. It lets the rich siphon off the wealth of the country and pretend they worked for it. Elon Musk made like $100 billion last year. He could literally be taxed 100% of that and still be a multibillionaire. And it's pretty well known that he's not that great of a businessman.

There are tax plans that could address this. For example, Elizabeth Warren has proposed a 3% tax on wealth above $50 million. I mean, that's 3% of an ultramillionaire's wealth and doesn't even touch their first $50 million. I don't see anything wrong with that. To an Elon Musk, that's a pittance. That could raise like $6 billion from Musk alone.

As for a flat tax, you do realize that for like 80% of tax payers that would result in an increase in taxes? It would cut taxes for the wealthiest and put a huge burden on the bottom 4/5. I don't think that's a great idea. Do you want to raise taxes on the middle class?

I know gender dysphoria is a thing but most kids out grow it by their teens as opposed to the ones that get sex changes have an extremely high rate of suicide.

Do you have data on this claim? This may be true, but is that because of the social consequences they feel when they undergo sex change? Would they experience the same depression if they were accepted and supported? What is the suicide rate of children with sexual dysphoria that isn't addressed through sex change? I don't know these things, do you? I'm not asking for things you've heard on the internet. I'd like actual data on this. Views of experts, and the like.

I found this case study very interesting: Gender Dysphoria and Suicidal Ideation

It seems like it is typical in that sexual dysphoria is strongly associated with body image dissatisfaction. Also, much of the depression could be a result of not being socially accepted ("I'm too short, too ugly"). This person was uncertain about making the sex change and upon expressing that uncertainty, the hormone treatment was discontinued right away. But the patient still preferred to be referred to as male (even reacting angrily to being referred to as female). Also, I noticed reference to an established medical procedure from the The Endocrine Society and World Professional Association for Transgender that is recommended.

I think this issue is more complex than you make it out to be.

We are made the way we are for a reason and wish we would embrace body love over focusing on one’s personality not matching your body.

I support encouraging positive body acceptance, but I think the issue of dysphoria goes a lot deeper than that.

As far as what people do to themselves as adults, as long as it is within established medical ethics, I would say that's their business, not mine. In other words, treatments shouldn't be applied that are inimical to healthy outcomes. If surgery to make someone look like a cat can be done without undue overall negative health effects and the person wants that, then who am I to say they can't do that? It's up to them.

I fear for these kids that grow up and end up committing suicide because young they were given hormones or blockers or had surgery.

Is that why they commit suicide though? I'm not sure. A correlation isn't a causation.

Children with sexual dysphoria have higher rates of suicide attempts as it is, by the way. Here's another study: Self-Harm and Suicidality in Children Referred for Gender Dysphoria

I'm learning a lot about this issue. Mostly, I feel like this isn't my call. I really have no business weighing in on this. It should be left to parents and the child and professionals.

It seems like there is a pretty careful process that starts with suppressing natal assignment hormones just to delay the process long enough for the individual to be older to make more permanent decisions. I think medically, things don't start until puberty.

This part is key, I think:

2.4. In adolescents who request sex hormone treatment (given this is a partly irreversible treatment), we recommend initiating treatment using a gradually increasing dose schedule after a multidisciplinary team of medical and MHPs has confirmed the persistence of GD/gender incongruence and sufficient mental capacity to give informed consent, which most adolescents have by age 16 years.

The way things are trending if you are a tomboy you should be made a boy and if you a feminine a girl.

That's not how it works. One of my best friends growing up was a "tomboy," but she was always female, always identified as female. It isn't this simple.

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OriginalPatriot 0 points ago +1 / -1

Here is a link to a research article about gender dysphoria. I think this issue is more complex than you think.

[Factors Associated With Desistence and Persistence of Childhood Gender Dysphoria](Factors Associated With Desistence and Persistence of Childhood Gender Dysphoria)

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OriginalPatriot 0 points ago +1 / -1

Well, you got me reading the Communist Manifesto again (it's been at least 20 years). But I'm not sure why. It's interesting, but also a little outdated for modern times. For one thing, the modern western democracies thwarted the contradictions that he said would lead to massive worker movements by adopting the prescriptions that weren't necessarily inconsistent with capitalism--those we've been discussing--universal free public education, progressive taxation, end of child labor, etc. Adopting those things weren't pushing western democracies toward communism, they were responses to movements for reforming capitalism (and also, capitalists saw a more educated workforce as a positive).

EDIT: And look, we agree on one thing: corporate elites, corporate monopolies all of that is bad. So how do we deal with that? If we just look at that one thing we agree on and put aside things like gender dysphoria and Islam, how do we, the people, deal with corporate elites?

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

Why work for a higher job or a higher wage if your taxes end up being 50% to 70%?

They'd still make more money. Most of the high tax brackets are imposed after a threshold, for example, after your first $10 million, you can be taxed at higher rate. I don't see any problem with that at all. Why shouldn't people who are benefitting the most from our system pay more back into our system? It's not just their hard work that allows their enrichment, it's the rule of law and all of society that maintains a system that allows that accumulation of wealth.

But that's beside the point. Sure you don't agree with a progressive tax rate, but is it a sign that we're getting closer to a Stalinist state? That's what you said. I don't think so. Just like abolishing child factory labor and public schools, it's just a good idea.

Communism as a whole takes away from motivation and creativity with out even meaning to.

I'm not arguing for communism. I am arguing against your assertion that we are closer to being a Stalinist state. Or that liberal policies are necessarily steps toward that.

Trump had some things write like amazon getting breaks on packages the post office looses money every time a a package is shipped through amazon and who ends up paying that difference through taxes?

Ok, sure, I agree with that. So there's one thing, Trump raised that as an issue. Do you know if that policy stopped? Well, I just looked into this and it turns out that the Post Office gets a huge profit from this deal with Amazon, so that actually helps us taxpayers it seems. The Post Office reports like $1.6 billion in profits from Amazon alone. Yes, there were uncaptured profits because of the lower deal and it still feels wrong to me. But we as the public don't "lose" anything by this deal, as it turns out.

But there's that. Trump did mention this Amazon deal. Amazon's building it's own delivery service now so it won't be a problem soon. The USPS just won't get that business anymore.

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

Then why do you link to a list that says it's one of the indicators that socialism is taking over?

And if we can agree that child factory labor should be abolished, what about other things on that list? Can we then say, progressive taxation is probably a good idea and not necessarily just a step toward Marxism? Can't we say that some things on that list are good things and so we implement them and some things aren't (like for example confiscation of all private property), so we don't adopt them?

And if that's true then isn't the claim that are getting closer to a communist takeover false? Isn't it true that some things on that list, we all just pretty much universally agree are good things? Abolishing child labor, progressive taxation, public education. The other things on that list aren't happening, as I demonstrated.

nd as far as corporations go they aren’t the opposite they are are result of corporate WELFARE and couldn’t exist with out it.

I agree with this. Absolutely. But then why do you support Trump who extended corporate welfare to agricultural corporations? Don't all the political elites, including Trump, support corporate welfare?

ey are actually almost just like communism where they run everything through monopolies and taxes provided by the people just what happens with government monopoly which is what communism calls for.

But they aren't communist. They are capitalist. They are founded on capitalistic principles. They are not owned by the public. The public does not make decisions regarding what to do with the fruits of their endeavors. The public does not decide what their workers get paid. The public has no say whatsoever into what those corporations do with their profits, mostly siphoned off labor, except to the extent that the government imposes regulations on those corporations. But yet it's your side that opposes those regulations that are the only way the public has a say in what those corporations do. That's not at all like communism. It is exactly the opposite of communism. The private sector controls all decisions while the public sector subsidizes it. That's not communism in any way shape or form.

So on that list of 10 items that show how far we've come toward Marxism, which ones do you actually agree with and which ones do you oppose? It's a bit confusing now.

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

The public owns it. I think the building that burned down was a house converted to apartments. I don't think it was "government housing," but I could be wrong. It could be that it was government housing in that the occupants were eligible for rental assistance (voucher), but that housing is actually privately owned and managed. But I have spent a great deal of time in large public housing developments and they are not ideal. Some aren't too bad but too many of them are substandard. It's an underfunded program and obviously, considering the homeless situation, we need better solutions. The private market is not meeting the need of the public.

If the entire book covers "the state" owning everything, then you should be able to find a quote from the book saying that.

My reading of Marx is that the public owns it, not the state. The government doesn't own federal lands, we the people own federal lands. What happens on federal lands is determined by policies created by elected officials. That's how public property is managed in a democratic republic. When I say "we" own it, that doesn't me that I get to go out on public land and do with it whatever I personally want to do with it. We all collectively own it and we manage it through our elected representatives. That's the only fair way to do it.

EDIT: Just read about the house in Philly. It was operated by the city housing authority and had passed inspections, including functioning fire alarms with good batteries. It's a horrible tragedy either way. Just note that weaponizing this example, out of many many examples of building tragedies is cherry picking though. For example, the building that collapsed in Florida was not public housing.

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

ou are wrong about slavery Christians are the ones who stopped it.

Christians were on both sides of this. Christians certainly supported slavery and used the Bible to justify it. Abolitionists, who were considered crazy radicals by the way, also opposed it largely on Christian principles.

Slavery still exists today and was first abolished in western societies. White Christian societies overwhelmingly ended it first and even pushed for the trade to end in other places. To single out the USA for slavery when it had been around since the start of time and still exists seems odd doesn’t it?

I didn't single out the U.S.

We should be teaching the entire history in schools of slavery which is all people and all cultures used to and some still do embrace slavery.

But slavery is huge part of American history, which we teach in schools. Part of the history of the US, founded on principles of liberty and freedom, is that from founding until the 1860s, the most brutal, dehumanizing form of chattel slavery was practiced. Should that not be taught in an AMERICAN history class? The issue led directly to a Civil War which caused more wartime American deaths than any other armed conflict in our history. But we should for some reason try to soften the history lesson by saying, well, yes, we did do slavery but the Muslims also enslaved the Slavs for centuries. And so what? Does that somehow make it any better? Why would we teach about slavery in other countries when we are teaching American history?

And absolutely, I firmly support teaching human rights to students. Maybe we should have a human rights curriculum where students are exposed to the fact that slavery is practiced in parts of the world. I totally support that. Do you? I see that as a separate thing from American history , though. (By the way, it's not a defense for Ted Bundy to say, yeah, I killed a bunch of people, but so did Henry Lee Lucas.

Why do I not see liberals fighting for slaves that exists today?

They do, maybe you can get involved: Alliance to End Slavery & Trafficking Anti-Slavery International End Slavery Now Connect (list)

I mean, there are literally dozens and dozens of anti-slavery groups out there. I am surprised that you as an active person who is interested in political solutions and adamantly opposed to slavery aren't aware of that. Well, look, there are all kinds of opportunities for you personally to get involved and do something. Or are you just trying to weaponize the issue as a talking point? (My guess is the latter.)

I do not see you guys marching demanding China stop enslaving Muslims.

First, who do we march on? The purpose of a march is to influence decision-makers. I didn't see Trump supporters marching on Trump when he talked about his special relationship with Xi. Did you? Did you march on that? Did you criticize his love for the North Korean dictator? He literally said he fell in love with Kim. Nothing from you?

Uyghur Human Rights Project

Another one to join. Also, you could support the cause by putting pressure on companies that produce clothing in China. Here's some info:

China Fast Tracked Ivanka Trump's Trademark Requests

You need to get past the programming of a liberal believing everything non liberal is propaganda and read with an open mind. Not saying agree but just read and consider the reason you shut down articles immediately is because you are programmed.

I'm not programmed and I don't shut them down. I look into them and find them absolutely bogus. I detail my reasons for why they are bogus. All you do is gainsay that. You never present facts as counter-proposals. Just more junk links.

What if and we are correct in that you guys are very much bamboozled by state media?

What if and WE are correct that YOU guys are bamboozled by rightwing propaganda? The so-called the "state media" are only PBS and NPR (I guess also Voice of America if that's still around). The first two are independent publicly supported corporations, but they are the closest we have to state media.

That argument works both ways. Deal with the facts, not the sources. If I present something as a fact and I'm wrong, call me out on it. That's what I try to do with these articles you say I shut down. I don't shut them down, I debunk them with facts. Fact: federal lands have been around since the beginning of the US and have only declined in total acreage since at least the 1990s (an example of debunking one of the talking points one of your sources claimed was true).

And no we should not ever accept changing sex as ok or normal. We should love and embrace the people as we do with anyone mentally ill. If a boy is feminine let him be feminine and gay if he is. Why tear apart your body? What does a penis have to do with who you are? We should be embracing self love and that you are perfect in the body you are born in. Isn’t gender a social construct? If so then why the need to change ones self and not just love your personality and body as is?

I'm not sure they are mentally ill. Do you know any trans people personally? I do. There's nothing overtly "mentally ill" about them. They are fine functioning people. They appear to be happy with their choice. Why should that matter to you or me? Now I do concede that kids are tricky issue. To what extent is a child able to make this decision? What is the process for determining if this is really something absolute, that it's not a mistake? I don't know those things, but I'm sure there's a process. Some way of making sure that a kid isn't just falling for some fad.

I’ll pull up some cartoons when I get a minute and cases and lawsuits. I assure you it is there.

I'm waiting. Examples of schools specifically pushing kids to transition. That's what you said was happening. And, yes, cartoons. It's interesting that you said it was everywhere and yet you need some time to find something.

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

What I asked for was that you point to where Marx ever mentioned the government controlling all power.

  1. "Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes." Well, we're working on this one. The federal government owns huge amounts of land and is acquiring more. Private property rights are being eroded deliberately in the name of protecting the environment.

The creation of federal public lands occurred even under the Articles of Confederation and continued on under the Constitution. If anything, there has been a long process of ceding public land to private hands. For history of acquisition of public lands see Table 1-1. In fact, since 1990, a net 31 million acres of public land has been lost. [see page 15]

In other words, federal public lands were created before Marx even lived and was instituted by the Founding Fathers of the USA. Were the founding fathers actually communists?

  1. "A heavy progressive or graduated income tax." Need I say more? Before Ronald Reagan's tax law changes we had exactly that and many Americans support the idea of taxing the rich more than the less-rich.

Where in the Manifesto is this? In Marx's view, the rich themselves would be abolished. This appears to be utter nonsense. I do support progressive taxation, why wouldn't I? It isn't at all a communist position. This is actually just an absurd position to hold. You can't say that Marx wanted to abolish private property and tax the rich more than the poor. It's absolutely a contradiction. This should indicate to you that this source is not well-thought out nor is it reliable.

  1. "Abolition of all rights of inheritance." We haven't gone all the way on that one, but heavy estate taxes are a step in that direction. Estate taxes are purely punitive because they are taxes levied on assets on which multiple taxes have already been paid many times.

I don't have a personally strong position on estate taxes. But ideally we live in a country where everybody should have equality of opportunity. If rich scions just live off the fruits gathered by their ancestors, that isn't actually in keeping with that ideal. So by saying you oppose heavy estate taxes, you are essentially saying you don't believe in equality of opportunity and actually support a system of rich and poor. Because as we know, the rich get richer without doing anything at all, they don't have to work at. The poor get poorer or stagnate even if they do work hard. That appears to be the system you support. I don't have that much sympathy for griping about estate taxes, nor do I want to go out and advocate for them. But philosophically, they are entirely in keeping with often proclaimed American ideals. And again, this would be irrelevant in a Marxist system, so this isn't a tenet of Marx.

  1. "Confiscation of the property of emigrants and rebels." Well, our forefathers confiscated the property of those who supported the British during the Revolution, and, under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act and other civil statutes, property is being confiscated right and left in the name of the war on drugs.

As is stated here, this isn't a particularly Marxist position. Since Marx believed in public control of all property this also seems to be irrelevant. But I'm not sure there's a place on Earth where the property of rebels isn't seized. As far as emigrants go, does that happen here? I don't think so. I am opposed to the drug war, by the way, and I believe there's a lot of corruption behind the Blue (we support the Blue, right?) seizing property. This has zero to do with Marxism. I have never heard Trump say he wants to end this policy. Has he?

  1. "Centralization of credit in the hands of the state . . . ." Pretty much done. See the Federal Reserve Act.

The Government doesn't directly manage credit. Banks, credit unions, etc, are still by and large private entities.

So far this list is 0/5 on what it sets out to prove. And nothing really from the Communist Manifesto at all. I don't believe you've read it. I think you've read about it. That's why instead of pointing me to direct quotes from it, you link to wingnut websites about it. Nothing you say, nothing in this list, suggests you've actually read it.

. "Centralization of the means of communications and transport in the hands of the state." Seen a private road or bridge lately? Who licenses all radio and television? Only the First Amendment saves the print press from federal licensing, but I suspect that hate-speech laws will soon follow hate-crime laws, and that will erode that freedom.

There are private roads and bridges (which are not free to use). Licensing is a far cry from "centralization in the hands of the state." It's not like Russia where a station can be shut down because of what it says. It isn't like North Korea where broadcasting is actually done by the state. The most direct connection we have is PBS and NPR and actually, I like a lot of that programming, but I don't watch for the news mostly. And it's usually conservatives who try to influence programming by threatening funding.

  1. "Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state . . . ." Well, the government runs many businesses and some folks would like to see it run more.

What businesses does the government run?

  1. "Equal obligation to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture." We've escaped this one mainly, in my opinion, because of the Second Amendment (the right to own firearms) and mechanization.

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with "escaping" this one. No one has even attempted it or expressed any desire for it. Mostly people want jobs and during the New Deal, welcomed public works jobs run by the government. Nobody opposed that with their gun collections. I will point out though that for the first century of US existence we literally practiced slavery. With the abolition of slavery, we gone pretty dramatically in the opposite direction on this one.

  1. "Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of distinction between town and country." Pretty much done, because big corporations dominate what's left of agriculture and mass communications have more or less erased cultural differences.

All you have to do is look at red versus blue counties to see that cultural differences have not been erased. 100% false. I do agree that big corporations dominate agriculture and that it's a bad thing. But, note, "big corporations" are capitalist entities. They are a natural consequence of capitalism, especially unregulated capitalism, pretty much the opposite of Marxism.

  1. "Free education of all children in public schools.

100% support this. Not at all a Marxist idea and, even it were, not necessarily a bad one.

Abolition of child factory labor in its present form.

Are you for child factory labor? Really? I 100% support this. If this is part of the Marxist agenda, score one for Marx. I'm down with this. I am frankly surprised that you favor child factory labor and oppose free public education. (Don't say you don't, you were the one who told me to read this as a warning of the dangers of communism).

Combination of education with industrial production." Done.

Not done at all. I mean, ok, there are apprenticeships run by unions to help young workers get into the occupation. There are vocational school programs (but mostly were substantially cut back in the push to make all kids go to 4 year colleges), but are those bad things? Are they Marxists? They seem to benefit both industry and young workers who want a job out of high school. Are you against that?

I don't see where you're coming from. This entire thing, which I spend quite a bit of time and energy responding to is junk. The items that are actually true, I agree with (abolition of child factory labor, universal free public education). If it isn't junk, please show me how it isn't.

And I repeat: where in the Communist Manifesto does Marx say the government should control everything?

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

Oh I forgot to address the Muslim thing. Individually they are not a problem. Ok. I agree.

However they are the fastest growing religion and do have children at higher rates. And so?

They have a horrible history of being violent and enslaving people .

So do Christians. 200 years of slavery here in the United States, by and large, condoned and even justified by Christians.

Centuries of it and still enslave people today.

Islam has banned slavery, but, yes, it is still practiced even when officially abolished. I'm not a fan of Islam. I am merely saying that liberals haven't "embraced" Islam. In the US, we practice freedom of religion. That includes all religions, including Islam. Those religions though still have to follow our laws. So what we need to maintain and fight for is democracy. And I would be willing to bet that the vast, vast majority of Muslims in the US want democracy and don't support slavery.

They currently murder thousands of Christians yearly in their countries.

Again, you say "they." It certainly isn't Muslims in the US killing Christians. And remember, Muslims are also persecuted in some parts of the world. Let me be clear: I oppose Muslims persecuting Christians, Buddhists persecuting Muslims, Christians persecuting Buddhists or whatever. I also 100% oppose any religious state. Religion and government should be entirely separate. You cannot have a democracy if there is a state religion or a religion based on a state. In those cases where Christians are persecuted, generally speaking, there is an Islamic state. Any authoritarian state scapegoats and murders minority populations. Germans killed Jews, Guatemala killed indigenous people, Vietnamese Christians killed Buddhists, Chinese communists kill Muslims, et etc etc. This is an aspect of authoritarianism. Take state power away from religions and they can't do that. (I know some of those I listed weren't theocracies, per se.)

Liberals embrace any religion that is not Christian because they are ignorant.

Most liberals are Christians. 44% of mainline protestants are Democrats. 44% of Catholics are Democrats. 44% of Orthodox Christians are Democrats. 80% of Black Christians are Democrats. You need to use facts, not just whatever you think is true.

Under Islamic law gays are murdered or even changed to women. Women are horribly oppressed.

Under Islamic law as practiced by Islamic fundamentalists. But I agree there are some horrific Islamic states out there. I wouldn't say liberals "embrace" those states. In fact, it's conservatives who embrace states like Saudi Arabia, not liberals. It was Jared Kushner who cut a deal with Qatar to save his ass on the 666 Park Ave property. It's Trump and family who are literally friends with MBS who had a journalist, an American resident, hacked to pieces. I don't see liberals "embracing" Islam at all, other than to say we practice religious freedom in the United States and people should be persecuted based on their religion.

I would say part of how we got to this insane society is kids rebelling against too strict of Christian parents. Like no tolerance. I remember those parents in the 80’s and 90’s. But at the moment the lack of tolerance is on the left and they are acting like the intolerant version of their parents but advocating different things.

I don't know what you mean. The first part: no, I don't think that was much of a problem and isn't what has led us to where we're at. What's led us to where we are it is the marriage of conservative Evangelical Christianity with the Republican Party.

I don't know what you mean about the intolerance on the left. Can you be more specific?

Which includes abusing, aborting or cutting up kids genitalia or physiological abuse or sex with minors.

Aborting a fetus isn't harming a living being, at least if we follow Roe v Wade guidelines. At that point, the fetus isn't a separate living being. I remember when I was a young Catholic arguing with Protestants about this from the other point of view. I remember them saying it was "just a bunch of cells." But when the GOP starting pushing abortion as a wedge issue, protestants switched their position on it. They did convince me first though.

Everything else I agree with, except the caveat of children who want to transition. I'm still not sure what to think about that.

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

I have read pretty everything Marx has written , I think you possibly have not. Marx believes in no private property at all. In order for his vision to take place even property must be taken from the poor. The government owns everything and is distributed to use not owned by the citizens. “The public” is the government. It’s word play and hard to understand unless you really delve into his works including questions answered by him and Engles.

Can you site in Marx where he says "the government owns everything?"

Can you explain Marx's theory of capital accumulation and what do you think about it?

think yes, there are some people that fall for the patriotic stuff but more so Trump meaning to or not activated a massive base of people that realized how corrupt both sides are.

Both sides are corrupt, I agree. So is Trump. Trump is an utter fraud. Look, his "university" got shut down and he had to pay out $25 million to students he defrauded. His "charity" got shut down for misusing funds. He has a history of cheating workers. Why would you think Trump isn't as corrupt as anyone else?

n the end if Trump is unable to save the country, I do not believe that will be the end. Trump very well may not be who we think or want but non the less he has awakened people very much to the corruption happening and now patriots want all their freedoms back.

But following Trump doesn't get the country back. What precise step has Trump taken to take power out of the hands of the corporate elite? He gave them a huge tax break, his advisors were full of Goldman Sachs types. Trump is like the Pied Piper and you are all conned by his false promises. He just says whatever he thinks will rile people up by "owning the libs." That's all he does. If people are woken up and herded off the cliff, that's not helping much.

In Texas the huge case where the mother won (not sure if final) to raise her kid like a boy. Despite the father not wanting to transition him and apparently the kid doesn’t want it ether when not at his moms house.

Have you looked into this? I did because it was extremely concerning. It could be that here we have a mother trying to force her son to be a girl. I don't know. Apparently, it's difficult to assess what the child wants. But this is one case that's being litigated and is also part of a complex custody battle. It's not typical. There aren't liberals going into that house making the boy a girl. The mother herself claims the boy wants to be a girl. The father denies that. I don't have special insight into who is right and who is wrong.I can see where the child could be manipulated by either parent while in that parent's custody. Obviously with the father, I'm sure there's massive approval when boy behaviors are selected.

Many parents all over the USA are suing for schools trying to talk their kids into transitioning.

Do you have any sources for this. I don't believe there is a single school in the USA trying to talk kids into transitioning. Not a single one. If there were, that staff would be immediately fired (rightfully so).

They are actively pushing trans crap everywhere and if you aren’t sure where they are getting it it is in cartoons and in schools.

Can you give me one example of schools pushing kids into transitioning?

I'm not sure about cartoons. Would you consider having trans characters in a cartoon "pushing kids into transitioning?" I am unaware of cartoons with trans characters and highly doubt that there are mainstream cartoons that encourage transitioning. I could imagine that there are cartoons that show it's ok to transition. I think that is important for kids who really do want to transition, they should be supported and not ostracized, don't you think?

This is a trend for kids who don’t understand the life long repercussions of hormones or blockers or cutting up your body. It’s not like goth makeup that washes off when you are over being goth. They are not just a different generation. Even in the tablets they are given in school it is in there.

Yeah, I'm concerned about kids making those choices so early in their lives. But then, when are they supposed to make that choice? I don't know. I don't have the answers. I know people who transitioned and are very happy with their choice to do so. So what's the big deal? It's their life, not mine. But, yeah, as far as kids making that decision, I'm not an expert but I think that there really have to be really careful steps to take or guidelines to follow or something to assess if the child really does in their heart identify as the opposite sex. I don't know what that process is. My own nephew/niece hasn't transitioned yet but apparently wants to. I said earlier that they weren't particularly feminine, but I do remember that in Minecraft, they (I should say "she" because she does want she/her pronouns, I guess) always chose a female avatar. I didn't think that much about it, but now thinking back on that, it might have meant something that I missed.

Even in the tablets they are given in school it is in there. Most teachers are probably too lazy or don’t care enough to look at what is in the tablets they learn on.

What do you that it is "even in the tablets they are given?" You mean it is part of the classes that do through their tablets? I don't understand. I can assure you that there is nothing that "pushes" students or encourages them to transition. If you can find something, a primary document, showing opposite then I will believe it. But I won't believe it just from someone saying it's there.

. A mother told me in a very red state in order to pass the online class given during Covid her kid had to learn trans crap. Many as young as pre-K get non binary bs taught to them. Kids soak in whatever you teach them. Nothing is happening but perverted abusive propaganda.

What is taught to them? Would it be wrong to teach kids about trans people? Trans people are people, still deserving of respect and love just like anyone else. In most states, pre-k isn't even public, so if it is in pre-k, that's something to do with that particular pre-school. In public school, I do not believe there is anything "pushing" students to transition. I could see students at some level, particularly high school, being taught about trans people. It's part of the world we live in, so it probably should be addressed.

Red flag laws are way overstepping. You can call on someone you don’t know and their property gets seized with out investigation. Then to get your guns back you have to go to court and then pay to get them back no matter what the verdict.

So you don't agree with red flag laws, but are they really trampling on the Constitution? Hasn't the Supreme Court ruled that, in both speech and right to arms, that the right isn't absolute.

I believe that the way the process works is that there is a hearing within 24 hours after a claim is submitted to the Court. A judge then makes a determination as to whether there is an actual threat. The onus is on the petitioners to present facts to support the claim that there is a danger to the individual or the public. Only then are the weapons turned over. So it's pretty clear there is a due process and it isn't as much of an overstep as you see to believe. If it saves lives, isn't it a good idea?

Also, not just anyone can file the petition. It has to be law enforcement, immediate family, or someone living in the household.

Here's an example: Oregon Red Flag Law

Here is a red state Red Flag law: Indiana Red Flag Law

In the case of Indiana, the petition comes from law enforcement only.

So what specifically do you think is wrong with these laws?

his doesn’t even touch on when they decide to ban guns and then unknowingly if you bought one before the ban you can become an instant felon even though you owned it prior.

This isn't true at all. When "assault weapons" were banned, owners were allowed to keep their pre-ban weapons. The were even called "pre-bans."

If the government wants your guns in blue states all they have to do is get someone to call in a red flag report.

Law enforcement could do that, yes, but we trust the Blue, right? Otherwise, the government would have to get an immediate family member or someone living in the house to do it. Also, there is judicial oversight.

If you don’t see the call for censorship and the actual censorship happening to any dissenting voices that question the Democratic Party and agendas I don’t know what to tell you.

Well, you could give me an example, which is what I asked for. If it's out there, then it shouldn't be very hard to demonstrate. It's not out there, that's why you resort to 'you don't know what to tell you' schtick. You just don't have anything to tell.

I'll look at that site. I'm not hopeful that there will be anything but propaganda there.

EDIT: First thing I looked at was this: Russian Ammo Ban

First, I 100% support taking action against Russia and Putin for poisoning Aleksey Navalny. Why wouldn't we all support the democratic opposition to authoritarian and totally corrupt Putin? This isn't stopping anybody from purchasing all manner of ammo.

I'm turned off already. As if being able to by ammo specifically from Russia (shouldn't we support American manufacturers anyway?) is more important that human rights. Putin hasn't only poisoned and imprisoned Navalny, he has killed people on our soil and in Britain using poison. He's murdered journalists in Russia.

Here's a list of people probably killed on Putin's orders.

I'm disturbed by conservatives turning to eastern European dictatorships or authoritarians as role models, like Tucker Carlson going to Hungary and extolling Orban. Hungary is only considered "partially free" by Freedom House. Why would we want to be like Hungary? Yet that's exactly what Tucker said. CPAC is going to hold a conference there. Why? Why are conservatives attracted to these authoritarians?

Link to Freedom House. Interestlingly, for some reason Hungary was upgraded from 69 to 70 in this year's rating. When I checked a few weeks ago it was a 69 (partially free). Very interesting that it somehow bumped up to 70. ( I put in an inquiry.)

So, yeah, I don't have time for this sort of sensationalism. Embargoing Russian ammos isn't "trampling on the Constititution."

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OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

I don’t see Trump turning the US into a right wing fascist state at all.

It's not so much Trump. He's just a useful and willing tool.

Trump has some very Christian supporters but above all most are just patriots who wish to see the power ACTUALLY returned to the people not the commie version.of the “people..”

The "commie version of the people" is literally the working class. Read the Communist Manifesto.

They are all across the board in backgrounds but one thing they seem to all agree upon is taking power away from large corporations and big pharma and instead looking out for the small business man.

I 100% agree with this goal. But what does building a wall, etc, have to do with that? What Trump actually does is divide the working class (and ok, the small businessman). His policies threw crumbs to us but totally enriched the corporate elites. The crumbs were just the bait for us to swallow the whole package.

but slap some rainbows and transgender crap in commercials and all of sudden they are ok with large corporations.

And on the flip side, throw up some red, white, blue background, with stars and stripes and the Trump crowd is fine with it. Big Pharma makes the vaccine, but also makes ivermectin (for example).

Even weirder is the embrace of Islam on the left and that is what should be feared. Islam has no respect at all for other religions or other thinking and especially not liberalism,

You are stereotyping an entire religion. Islam has ruled areas for long periods of time and was mostly tolerant. That hasn't been the case lately, but I would argue that colonialism created the merger of authoritarian government with Islam in order to control those populations to enable the continued extraction of resources. For example, the Saudis are our friends but are just as brutal as any other Islamic state in the region.

I also don't think the left "embraces" Islam. I'd say they believe in freedom of religion. Big difference.

Your fear of the Muslim Brotherhood is much like my fear of Christian Identity in this country. We aren't much in danger from the Muslim Brotherhood. Christian Identity is bigger threat here.

This should be setting of some alarms and we should be concerned for gay people everywhere that the embracing of changing one’s sex is happening and encouraged because a child might be “gay” or because they are more feminine. Gay men especially should be appalled right now and what is happening to little boys.

I don't understand completely what's happening. Maybe this is just something that's been suppressed for a long time, but it isn't just like parents or liberals forcing kids to change sex. My own former nephew now niece identifies as female. I don't know why. It certainly wasn't because of her parents. My brother is a farmer and is befuddled and it's been hard for him to accept. I used to play Magic, Minecraft, D & D, build lego robots with my now niece who never seemed particularly feminine. So I don't understand completely either. But it came from her. That's all I know.

he point is Christians are not radical as a whole these days, they more just want respect of life (yes unborn and want to stop the practice of young kids being turned into the opposite sex) and just to be left alone.

Nobody is going into Christian homes and changing children's sex or gender.

They are trampling all over the first and second and would totally rewrite it or remove it if they could.

Tell me how liberals trample all over the first and second amendments? (Remember, those are amendments to the original Constitution, so they were changes made to the Constitution, which can be done, the Constitution allows for that).

6
OriginalPatriot 6 points ago +6 / -0

Here's the problem:

The jig is up.

Neoliberal capitalism has accelerated final stage capitalism where growth necessarily means cutting labor costs. Under the constraints of today, the way to do that is really through automation because paying workers less is becoming untenable. There are still lower wage populations to exploit but it's becoming politically difficult to maintain a system in which jobs are exported but the consumers are domestic. The consumers need capital to buy the products to keep the system moving.

So then workers have to be paid more and the workers domestically are relegated to service industry, restaurants, fulfillment centers, etc. Not everybody can be in middle management or higher on the corporate ladder. Credit was always one way around that, but even then, credit's getting tapped out.

So we have a lot of disposable people who do not fit into the labor market but yet we still need people to buy things. So we raise wages, we stimulate the economy with aid packages, we build more weapon systems, but all of that causes things like inflation. So now you have people who can afford things like housing and those who can'[t (thus the growing homeless problem--these are systemic problems--ten years ago, there weren't huge homeless camps living under bridges in my home town).

So we have a contradiction between the need for capital to grow and the need to have a domestic market in which people can afford costly products. And that problem just continues to accelerate. Overseas labor is getting tapped as their conditions improve and their costs go up (China can control that better being a totalitarian country).

All of that runs smack into democracy. People want more health care (Trump even promised a beautiful health care program paid for by the government), they want the government to do something about jobs (but isn't the economic sector supposed to be in private hands?), raise minimum wage, etc, etc. All of which affects capital's ability to grow. So to thwart those demands, our attention is turned to hoaxes: liberals eating kids and drinking their blood, teaching critical race theory (do you mean the history of slavery--we shouldn't teach that?), abortion (I am old enough to remember when conservatives didn't care about abortion and it was the Catholic Democrats who did).

So the response from capital will always be authoritarianism. And if you think siding with capital will be good for you, think again. This Trump movement is all about "freedom" and "liberty," but it will be all of our freedoms that will be taken away. Look at the models they want to emulate, like Tucker Carlson going to Hungary. People have far fewer freedoms in Hungary than we do, yet Carlson hailed it as a great system, better than ours. Why would he do that? Look at Russia where the opposition parties are outlawed and the main leaders imprisoned (even poisoned and assassinated.

What are our options in the face of this? It isn't backing Trump, he is on the side of capital. He is dividing and conquering us--we, the people. All of them are (except maybe Bernie). Republican and Democrat. They are all taking money and following the desires of corporate elites. So what are your solutions to all this?

1
OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

I could go through the whole thing and demonstrate how it is all just junk. Look, today, it was my daughter's birthday and on my way to work I saw a car with a license plate that had her name on it. What a coincidence! Well, no, because she has a 3 letter name which isn't really her full name, just her shortened nickname and as it turns out, many cars have that same 3 letters on their plates. Still what are the chances of me seeing one of those on that particular day? Pretty good actually.

When you go back through past events and try to piece together "coincidences," you are just cherry picking things that did happen versus the infinite of possibilities of things that could happen. What a coincidence when someone just happens to pick the right lottery numbers? What are the chances that Joe Schmoe in Terre Haute would pick just the right numbers? Yet it happens all the time.

1
OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

Trust me, it's not just the media. Everybody calls the cult "QAnon" which means the whole thing: Q (who in the end was just Ron Watkins) + Anons (the duped followers). That is what QAnon is. Nobody, nobody, who isn't into Q calls it anything else.

Saying you don't buy into it 100%, doesn't mean a thing. Everybody says that. For one thing, you can't buy into everything because some if not all of it has already been disproven or was just plain wrong (nothing happened on October 30, 2017, for example). So the goal posts constantly change and people just say, well, I didn't really buy into that. Or they say, I don't believe JFK Jr is alive. There's always some aspect that people abandon and say, "I never bought that anyway" or some really outlandish thing that they can point to and say I don't buy into it 100% because I don't believe X.

But if you believe that Q was some anonymous insider with special knowledge of events going on behind the scene and that those events included a clash between good guys and bad guys in the "deep state" that would result in a purge with a massive imprisonment (and possible execution) of hundreds of liberal elites, then that is the essence of Q. Then you are an Anon. And we who are sane and can see through an obvious hoax call you all "QAnon."

1
OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

So 7 minutes and the narrator has referred to several "coincidences." One was that Trump shortened the word "quarters" to Qs for a 24 character limit tweet. The narrator even says it would be necessary to shorten the word, but still counts it as a coincidence. This was a coincidence because it was on the same day of Qs "first" post (but was it really?). At the time of Q's first post, no one knew who Q was. It wouldn't make sense for Trump to use the letter to make some signal at this time. The tweet also mentions a "hurricane," as a form of "storm," but of course this was because there was a hurricane.So how did they manage to plan a hurricane at the same time as this "coincidence?" Or maybe it is just all a coincidence. The quarter reports came out and Trump tweeted about it, shortening the word quarter to Q, shortly after there really was a hurricane. There is literally nothing extraordinary about that.

Next, the narrator talks about Trump releasing all the JFK files (which he didn't follow through on) and that all conspiracies would be answered. We're still waiting for that.

The first thing, though, of course, was the infamous "calm before the storm" incoherent statement Trump made, promising we'd all find out soon what the "storm" was. We're still waiting. This reminds me of how Jesus promised the end times to come within the lifetimes of the apostles, which of course didn't happen forcing later writers to reinterpret his meaning. Trump's words and all these "coincidences" (which really are coincidences) have to get reinterpreted over and over again.

This is a bad start. Sort of like reading John Coleman's Hierarchy of Conspiracies. A phenomenal waste of time. And I'd go through the whole thing and debunk it step by step and it wouldn't matter to you at all. It's all false. I mean, all conspiracies are built on some foundation of truth but extend beyond what evidence supports to where believers have to have faith in what they believe in. This conspiracy is exactly the same.

If you think there is something really worthwhile, can you give me timestamps. So far, nothing in this video has panned out. You should rewatch it with a critical eye. Have you had to alter your beliefs to keep believing in this stuff over time? Don't you think that indicates you're deluding yourself?

1
OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

That was a public event. We already know who Q was.

1
OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

Qanon is the name the media who gave the losers who follow Q. There is a Qanon, it's a group of fools who believe in Q, which has already been thoroughly debunked and even if it hadn't, the fact that the goal posts have moved multiple times should tip anybody with half a brain off that this was all hoax. You all don't like being called "Qanon" but that is what sane society calls this insane delusion of the masses. "Qanon" is Q and Anons all together. See? QAnon.

You can continue to delude yourself, but Flynn is obviously grifting you all. Privately he says it's a psyop (which he explicitly) said. Publicly he does the pledge and all that. When asked straight up: There's no plan. When asked in private: It's a psyop.

Continue to believe the delusion, if you want. Year after year will pass and there will be no storm. Nothing. One day you will deny ever believing in Q.

1
OriginalPatriot 1 point ago +1 / -0

It was referred to me by one of yous all as proof of the global elite conspiracy.

-1
OriginalPatriot -1 points ago +1 / -2

As a father, I say it is creepy weird to say that about one's own daughter.

As far as "afraid Trump will win again," yes, I am. I believe he's part of a right-wing Christian (not "conservative," not "patriotic") plot to turn America into a Fascist Christian state.

This is from John Coleman's Conspirators' Hierarchy: The Committee of 300:

" I pursued my investigations, pressing on in the face of severe risks, attacks on myself and my wife, financial losses, continual harassment, threats and calumny, all part of a carefully-crafted and orchestrated program to discredit me, run by government agents and informers, embedded in the so-called Christian rightwing, the "Identity Movement" and rightwing "patriotic" groups. These agents operated, and still operate, under cover of strong and fearless outspoken opposition to Judaism their main enemy, they would have us believe."

It's these so-called "Christian" rightwing, Identity Movement people who are using Trump to destroy the Constitution. Do you think they will let just anyone have the right to bear arms? They will not care about any civil rights when they do away with democracy.

0
OriginalPatriot 0 points ago +2 / -2

What does "Q was reciprocated at the highest levels of the Trump admin" mean?

-2
OriginalPatriot -2 points ago +1 / -3

It sucks having to keep out views we can't handle.

I'm reading the Coleman screed, very interesting. I see you haven't responded to my comments, though.

What do you think about the fact that Coleman himself talked about how the Christian rightwing patriot movements were essentially acting as agents of the government?

-4
OriginalPatriot -4 points ago +1 / -5

Wait. You believe this stuff.

Biden has had multiple cases of graphical glitches.

No, he hasn't. If you didn't see something in person or there are no witnesses, then you don't know if it's Biden glitching or a technology glitch. Is there any witness to Biden being CGI?

Miami had Israeli's on the ground day 1 investigating

Helping. Mexico, too.

Pillow man did present evidence. I was convinced from what was shown.

You are easily duped then. What was the most important evidence that presented?

Vax magnetic or transmitting information as shown in a Mexican cellphone commercial for a free phone. NFC TAG?

It takes a Mexican cellphone commercial to convince you?

Graphene Hydroxide was confirmed.

No, it wasn't.

The Israel thing is getting old. Try a new schtick.

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