Please, the whole point of questioning Lucy is to question the theory of evolution.
Is it fishy, yes, but the other points about the knees and femur you're not questioning.
Do chimps and bonobos have a common ancestor? I honestly don't know. But that bonobo knees are the same as Lucy's knees does not bear any relation to the differences in the femur, let alone that fact that bonobos don't walk upright, whereas Lucy apparently did.
Questioning is how science works. To say I can’t question one evidence line of evolution without questioning all of evolution… sounds like a religion.
There is nothing to question about the knees and femur. The bonobo chimp has valgus knees and an identical femoral head and neck. And the bonobo ALSO walks upright.
"Questioning" is not how science works, that's a silly talking point that took off because covid tyranny. Science, more formally, is a process of knowledge acquisition that comes from making testable "questions," called hypotheses, and then sharing the results, which people talk/write about. Alchemy would have turned into chemistry in the Middle Ages ago but for the fact that everyone was working in secret.
I agree that scientism is akin to a materialist religion, and evolution advocates are particularly guilty of that fallacy. Let me lay my cards on the table, as a Christian, my denomination (and I) believe that God could use evolution to create modern human. Evolution as an ex nihilo explanation for humanity is wrong on the evidence.
The bonobo does not walk upright. Like chimps, they can for short distances. They are not like humans, who walk upright as a matter of course. That's very disingenuous of you to write.
Yea, the reconstruction story is fishy, but that's just the pelvis, not the knees and the femur. One maybe, sorta, kinda bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, at least in this instance.
You say “‘Questioning’ is not how science works” but in the very next sentence say science is “making testable ‘questions,’ called hypotheses.”
And the bonobo DOES walk upright. I never said he walks exclusively upright. They are also much better bipedal walkers than chimps and have several bipedal muscular and skeletal traits that normal chimps DO NOT have. It is disingenuous of you to compare the upright walking of bonobos to chimps.
Additionally, there is NO way to know if australopithecus afarensis walked upright exclusively.
“Yea, the reconstruction story is fishy, but that's just the pelvis, not the knees and the femur.”
BONOBOS have the SAME knees and femurs! The only tangible difference is the “fishy” pelvis.
“Do bonobos and Lucy have a common ancestor?”
It is likely that the bonobo is a direct descendant of australopithecus afarensis. I think that is far more likely, given their similarities, than saying humans descended from australopithecus afarensis.
Do you think it is misleading to compare Lucy to a chimpanzee instead of a bonobo?
Do you think a bonobo is much more similar to Lucy?
You don't understand the difference between making a falsifiable hypothesis to test (which only sometimes is in the form of a question), and the "questioning" you refer to. What you really mean by "questioning" is "debating" which everyone should be open to doing. I suggest you change your rhetoric to match.
Humans can also climb trees and crawl, but we walk upright as our primary means of locomotion after crawling around as babies. Bonobos can walk upright for short distances, that doesn't mean they walk upright as a matter of course. Again, you're being very disingenuous to say they they do.
And yes, you're being very misleading, because I think you're baiting to get to the conclusion that is different from the generally understood idea that bonobos, chimps, Lucy had a common ancestor and that Lucy was a branch that led to humans, while bonobos and chimps aren't. Frankly, I'm not versed enough in the subject to debate you on the intricacies of hominid lines, other than to return to my original point, which is that Lucy is a skeleton that shows a hominid that walks upright, nothing more, and nothing less.
Please, the whole point of questioning Lucy is to question the theory of evolution.
Is it fishy, yes, but the other points about the knees and femur you're not questioning.
Do chimps and bonobos have a common ancestor? I honestly don't know. But that bonobo knees are the same as Lucy's knees does not bear any relation to the differences in the femur, let alone that fact that bonobos don't walk upright, whereas Lucy apparently did.
Questioning is how science works. To say I can’t question one evidence line of evolution without questioning all of evolution… sounds like a religion.
There is nothing to question about the knees and femur. The bonobo chimp has valgus knees and an identical femoral head and neck. And the bonobo ALSO walks upright.
Source for bonobo upright walk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJSYQ9l-Xdw Source for femur, Just some ronding from age and maybe some “distortion”: https://gab.com/TheGreyGuy/posts/110069194596937737
You agree with most, if not all my points. We just came up with a different conclusion. Which is fine!
1- Lucy was originally reconstructed to have a normal ape pelvic bone.
2- later it was re-reconstructed to look human.
3- the reconstruction story is “fishy.”
4- Lucy and the bonobo look almost identical, and any differences can be explained with “distortions” from fossilizing.
5- Despite the similarities, there are no studies comparing them (fishy), but tons comparing them to chimpanzees. I made this to highlight my point. https://gab.com/TheGreyGuy/posts/110069336445670561
"Questioning" is not how science works, that's a silly talking point that took off because covid tyranny. Science, more formally, is a process of knowledge acquisition that comes from making testable "questions," called hypotheses, and then sharing the results, which people talk/write about. Alchemy would have turned into chemistry in the Middle Ages ago but for the fact that everyone was working in secret.
I agree that scientism is akin to a materialist religion, and evolution advocates are particularly guilty of that fallacy. Let me lay my cards on the table, as a Christian, my denomination (and I) believe that God could use evolution to create modern human. Evolution as an ex nihilo explanation for humanity is wrong on the evidence.
The bonobo does not walk upright. Like chimps, they can for short distances. They are not like humans, who walk upright as a matter of course. That's very disingenuous of you to write.
Yea, the reconstruction story is fishy, but that's just the pelvis, not the knees and the femur. One maybe, sorta, kinda bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, at least in this instance.
Do bonobos and Lucy have a common ancestor?
You say “‘Questioning’ is not how science works” but in the very next sentence say science is “making testable ‘questions,’ called hypotheses.”
And the bonobo DOES walk upright. I never said he walks exclusively upright. They are also much better bipedal walkers than chimps and have several bipedal muscular and skeletal traits that normal chimps DO NOT have. It is disingenuous of you to compare the upright walking of bonobos to chimps.
Additionally, there is NO way to know if australopithecus afarensis walked upright exclusively.
“Yea, the reconstruction story is fishy, but that's just the pelvis, not the knees and the femur.”
BONOBOS have the SAME knees and femurs! The only tangible difference is the “fishy” pelvis.
“Do bonobos and Lucy have a common ancestor?”
It is likely that the bonobo is a direct descendant of australopithecus afarensis. I think that is far more likely, given their similarities, than saying humans descended from australopithecus afarensis.
Do you think it is misleading to compare Lucy to a chimpanzee instead of a bonobo?
Do you think a bonobo is much more similar to Lucy?
I've got a long weekend of travel coming up, I won't be checking this site. I might reply on Monday, depending on what's in my inbox.
Take it easy.
You don't understand the difference between making a falsifiable hypothesis to test (which only sometimes is in the form of a question), and the "questioning" you refer to. What you really mean by "questioning" is "debating" which everyone should be open to doing. I suggest you change your rhetoric to match.
Humans can also climb trees and crawl, but we walk upright as our primary means of locomotion after crawling around as babies. Bonobos can walk upright for short distances, that doesn't mean they walk upright as a matter of course. Again, you're being very disingenuous to say they they do.
And yes, you're being very misleading, because I think you're baiting to get to the conclusion that is different from the generally understood idea that bonobos, chimps, Lucy had a common ancestor and that Lucy was a branch that led to humans, while bonobos and chimps aren't. Frankly, I'm not versed enough in the subject to debate you on the intricacies of hominid lines, other than to return to my original point, which is that Lucy is a skeleton that shows a hominid that walks upright, nothing more, and nothing less.