Reading all kind of CBDC propaganda and those who are clearly against CBDC I absolutely can't get something real from that stuff.
Every single feature/option/whatever of CBDC could be implemented using current bank card/account system without single problem. Everything, from any restrictions to programming buying power or whatever. Every single thing that somehow connected to CBDC in everything written about it and posed as threat/advantage by whatever side is a question of a few minutes scripting in bank computers over current card/account system.
So, what is the real point of pushing CBDC crap by TPTB? Money laundering? Creatiing a base for some other narrative unknown yet, like kind of cyber threat fearmongering? What else? Anybody?
This Richard Hall video IMO provided some probably accurate examples of how CBDCs will be used to control people:
https://player.odycdn.com/api/v4/streams/free/300_01b/bd475ad644e91bd767b854dd7431c22595071b61/982bec
There is no answer to my question at all.
All things they pose as "how CBDC will be used" is already fully available in current card/bank system. Every single point they show. Technically there is no any problem at all to do all that with your regular card/bank account right now. So why do they need CBDC really?
There are many problems for them with the current system. CBDC will make it easier and more immediate for them. They wont have to request info from any 3rd party about transactions. The real problem in their eyes is they don't know how every cent is spent, by who and on what. They want that info to be automatically a central property. Cash/debit cards (to a lesser extent credit cards) makes that difficult and cumbersome etc.. Before they eliminate cash entirely, they introduce it's replacement, CBDC, let it gain a solid footing over some years, get people to use it more and more often often, and then remove the smelly old cash and debit/credit cards no one uses anymore. CBDC will be smart phone only. CBDC wont be allowed to be exchanged to cash like debit card/credit card is. It's not a representation of cash, it's a new currency entirely.
So name me a single technical problem that will have more complex solution than building completely new system from scratch.
I'm focusing on technical aspect, not juridical, legislative or whatever, because only technical problems could not be solved by just signing some paper.
How? Technically. It is just a databases, where you could add fields, triggers, procedures, views, functions and create any logic for user you want. It is well-established, carefully tested and ready-to-go things in every single implementation.
What stop elites to not allow cash withdrawal from accounts? They already easily do that during coronahoax and sheeple gladly accept that fearing scary virus on dirty sheets of paper. There is no problem for them at all in that.
Card/bank account never was "representation of cash". It is cash always was representation of official currency. Card/bank account was another representation of official currency.
So why they need "new currency", if they do? I'm not shure that CBDC will be "new currency". Everywhere it is "digital dollar", "digital yuan", "digital rouble", "digital %your_currency_name%". Not something completely new like "amero" or like euro was.
but those are the problems. Technically it's a similar system to digital representation of cash now, but all the barriers to info flow to central banks will be removed - a free flow of transaction information. The real goal is to prevent people from possessing physical cash, from their account or from elsewhere, and paying it to someone for something without a record of that transaction - and now VAT paid on that specific transaction - no record of who paid and who received, where, when what etc. Right now, the cash disappears from some account and there is not trace of what happened to it. Smart phone would eliminate that.
For example - I have a certain amount of cash in my possession, obtained from various sources for various reasons - none of it was withdrawn from my own account, all was physically given to me. If they wanted to control how or where or on what I spent it, they couldn't - at least not until they cancel paper money as currency. But they can't cancel it until they introduce it's replacement - which is what they are doing with CBDC.
They could declare man a woman in a second signing some shitty law, but somehow doing something with sheeple bank accounts is a problem for them? Are you kidding me?
They already did it, and did it easily. During coronahoax in some places you was able to pay only with card. And they will easily do that again at much larger scale. Just sign a paper, and that's all. Then you could spend years and millions in courts, and even will be able to pay for that groceries in that shop in cash, but nobody will care, because sheeple will already forgot that they have such thing as cash earlier. They already forgot about cash, really and use bank smartphone apps, not even cards for payments,
Or, f.e. they could ramp up inflation and offer decent compensation to the money you have in your bank account, but not in cash. Who will still keep cash when you will need a bag of cash for a bottle of water or just a credit card with compensated money?
You could always go direct to the local farmer and buy some food with cash. Or buy from your neighbor who keeps chickens or a stock, or from some cash only simple market with no phone or wifi - I did it out of disgust when businesses would not take cash. Such markets became more popular during recent times just for such reasons.
To lock you into one area, they had deploy police and barriers - it was expensive, messy, unreliable. I was able to be nice with police to go where I wanted to go, or take a smaller road they had no resources to police. With CBDC it's a mouse click, and done - no way around it unless you bring a picnic and tent. But then CBDC is not the only front of attack - think of the English 15 minute city that tracks your car reg if you leave your area.
You even don't need cash for that if you have something useful for farmer.
Just like with card/bank account.
So, the big discrepancy between why people are concerned and your questions has to do with the use of CBDC, rather than the technology. The technology is perfectly fine, the idea of a distributed ledger is interesting and can solve some problems, while creating some others, etc.
The issue is that what you're describing is a credit card, rather than a currency. So, for example, I could charge things on my credit card if I am doing things that I am OK with corporations knowing about. If not, I can pay somebody in cash. For example, if I didn't want somebody to know I went to the strip club, I could just pay cash, or liquor, cigarettes, you name it. Or if I am just very privacy minded and I don't want people to know about any of my transactions, I can just pay cash for everything. I can also write checks if I trust my bank to a certain degree and the bank of the person that I am writing them to. This might provide a higher degree of privacy from certain corporations when compared to credit cards, etc. basically I'm in control over my level of privacy and over my money (if I don't trust the bank to keep my money safe, I can withdraw it and if I don't trust that my paper currency is going to be safe, then I can convert it to physical gold or silver without anybody knowing, etc.).
Once a CBDC replaces a currency, The economic system using that currency becomes something of a panopticon. Worse than that, if the government or other controllers of this currency decide to take your money, there's nothing you can do to preempt that risk or prepare for it. They will just take it. Right now, you can go to the bank and withdraw an extra $10,000 and keep it in a safe, if you're worried about some "digital covid" hack or other systemic risks. Once everybody is using a centrally controlled digital currency like this, there will be no privacy ever again. Everything you do that is done with the money and will be known directly by the government. It's no longer that you'll have to worry about Amazon reporting you as a prepper to the government; the government will see everything you do and when they decide that "wypeepo is systemically racising blax", then they'll just take 10% of your money and give it to black people, or gays, or whatever other group of people suits their needs.
More importantly, regardless of whether or not you believe that the government or any other entity would ever do any of these things, simply giving them the ability to is no different than turning all your guns in and trusting the government will never do anything to hurt you.
Cash is not a currency too. That paper thing in your pocket clearly state that it is a note that some amount of currency (dollar) belongs to the holder. Banknote is not a dollar itself, it is only officially accepted representation of it. So with card/bank account (a record that some amount of currency belong to account owner) or CBDC (same as with account, but the record is in blockchain, not plain old database).
Then you can't do all things you described in previous part. Just like if you have a bank/card account and cash is prohibited. Where is the place for CBDC here? How CBDC with prohibited cash is different from cards with prohibited cash?
And tomorrow they declare old banknotes no longer valid. Or change their value. Or ban them. Or force everybody to hand them to the banks.
What is the point of CBDC here, again?
If you are miss something, I could tell you that most sheeple happily use cards for everything. And even not a cards themselves, that theoretically could be given to another person, but bank apps in cellphones. And modern sheeple will never separate with his phone. There are no any privacy already, with regular card/bank accounts. CBDC will add absolutely nothing to it.
And why CBDC needed for that if they could easily do exactly the same with card/bank accounts? They could take 10% from your card, they could make all your purchases withdraw 10% more money from card, they could do everything you could imagine, you know, that computer things, they make such things much simplier.
They are already able to do all that things you afraid of. With your current card/bank account. And already did multiple times.
Also, notice how you unconciously limit the amount of cash you can withdraw from your card/bank account to $10k. They literally easily do everything they claim they will be able to do with CBDC. I found that, at least, very suspicious.
I think CBDC thing is completely another rabbit hole, not one they want to pose it. Or huge distraction from something we do not notice.
CBDC, like, e.g., ETH, is designed to be programmable, trackable, and non-fungible.
Fungibility is not a neologism or some kind of debatable topic. It is an economic principle that as well understood, along with its affects on privacy and freedom.
US dollars have serial numbers on them, making them, in theory, nonfungible. However, in practice, they are fungible, because it is practically infeasible to get everybody to scan those serial numbers during every transaction. Even if such a scheme was put into place, criminals could simply meet in the town square and exchange random bills from their wallets and ruin any semblance of accurate transactional reconstruction.
I mentioned a $10,000 withdraw, because that is a realistic amount of money that many many ordinary people could potentially withdraw (how many people do you know that have hundreds of thousands of US dollars in their checking account - that answer is 'not many', given that the average American has just over $1000 in SAVINGS). So, would the currency only be good/legit if you could withdraw 8 million dollars? How about a novemdecillion dollars? Is there a specific number that makes it a real currency, or is it a continuum? If it's a continuum, I'd much rather have some degree of freedom and privacy and ability to take my money out of the system than have zero ability.
By your logic, even though the second amendment protects American citizens' rights to keep and bear arms, since we aren't allowed to have nuclear ICBMs, we might as well give up the second amendment, entirely. It's all just binary, no continuums, no nuance, etc.?
If the government says, "if you want to sell gold, you need to fill out this form so that we can make sure we track it", then somebody can make a decision about their risk exposure by sneaking and selling their gold without filling that form out. That person will receive cash in return, and the risk remains in their hands. The most freedom would be not having to do this process at all, but the least freedom would be a scenario where it wasn't even possible to do the transaction without filling the form out, because the currency was programmed to disallow it.
What I'm describing now is another well known concept, called "perfect enforcement". Perfect enforcement is a concept that is considered to be one of the most tyrannical mechanisms imaginable. Another example that's easier to reason about (compared to CBDC) is speeding in your car. Currently you have the freedom to speed, but if you are seen by a police officer, depending on speed you are going in the circumstances on the road, you might get a ticket, because the roads are publicly owned and there are rules. Would you rather have that scenario or a scenario where your car prevents you from going 1 mph over the speed limit, regardless of your tolerance for risk? How about your car let you go over the speed limit and then automatically deducts a $100 ticket from your bank account, every time you go above the speed limit.
So yes, the bullshit inflationary currency that we have right now is not ideal, but it can (and will) get a lot worse.
If you dig deeper in that terms, you will find out that there is no any problem with that things in card accounts too. Programmable - easily. Dtabase triggers and procedures are not a new things at all. Trackable - there is no problems of tracking anything in database. Non-fungible there is no problem in adding a column with unique number.
Obviously, there should be no any limit on sum of withdrawal. As on sum you could keep with you in travel and so on.
Seriously - yes, I think there can't be any limits on the owning of any tech. Use of tech outside your property - may be. But definitely not owning. It is just basically stupid. No government could prevent me from building and owning fusion reactor. And even from using it in my property. But it will be wrong thing if I will take my fusor and run it at voltage level when it began to shoot fast neutrons in a pub.
But how CBDC is different in that from regular card/bank account? If they want, they could right now implement such limit on card/bank accounts to prevent buying more than 2 rolls of toilet paper, f.e. Just in a second. And CBDC adds nothing to that ability.
Of course you could hack that system in car, or go to the black market trade of toilet paper, but you will be able to do it regardless of CBDC existence.
That is exactly like many road camera systems work in some EU countries and nearly same as it work in Russia (fine does not deducts immidiately, but if you will have too many unpaid, it will). Without any CBDC at all.
And why they need CBDC for that, when they already have card/bank account system? I still don't get that. Not what they want to achieve with CBDC, but why they need CBDC when they already have everything needed in place. That is my question, not how CBDC planned to work and so on.
I answered all of this already in the gp comment.
Maybe it is more about having the perception of CBDC being new/cool/secure that will make the new changes to money seem more palatable to the public. Sure, they could just introduce new laws that mandate reporting all your purchases through regular credit cards to the govt after some false flag event. There would probably be a good bit of backlash, though. Or, they could make it more enticing by bundling the changes up in a CBDC, with for example, UBI, reduced fees, etc. Which, yes, could certainly be achieved by modifying the existing systems. "But the CBDC is new and shiny! It's progress! Oh, you don't like that you can't spend your CBDC on steak and guns? But we can't just go back to the old system, it's got UBI, it's what people crave! Do you hate poor people or something?"
So you think that CBDC is just a fancy marketing move to gracefully force people into new rules of money turnover?
Well, I accept that theory.
The one thing it gives is complete surveillance. When you withdraw cash noone knows how you spent it.
It already exists with card/bank account since the time they prohibit anonymous accounts and completely fucked bank secrecy.
How many people you know who withdraw cash from their cards as soon as they recieve salary?
As I said. Complete surveillance is not possible with cash access.
So black market and other untaxed systems of exchange can exist.
With complete surveillance of your input salary all expenditures are captured. End to end.
This feature does not currently exist.
How many people get salary in cash now? I think most get it to card/bank account. So it is already captured.
CBDC does not prevent black market/exchange and gives no advantage over card/bank account.
No. Who cares about a view on your total inputs. As you say it is already tracked.
Can goto bank machine. Withdraw cash. Spend in unknown ways. This is the what will be taken. This is the last bit of privacy one can currently claim.
With cbdc it will not be possible. Every transaction will be recorded
Can go to moneychanger. Exchange CBDC to cash. Spend in unknown ways.
What's the difference?
I could easily imagine at least several ways how to do that with CBDC. All what will be recorded in CBDC blockchain is that you just paid for some innocent thing or service.
How does that make sense?
So your example of using a side service puts the onus and tracking on them. To exchange for what exactly? The black market currency? Why would they do that? And you end up in a spiral of complex bullshit where you are criminalized out of the gate.
It is all part of a transition. Your ability to hit a money changer for example as your only viable mechanism would be removed in due time.
The design would continually evolve to curtail any undesirable use. This is the issue. It's all a segway.
Why do you think they can't ban cash without CBDC but somehow suddenly can with CBDC? I still can't find any reason for such conclusion.
In USSR exchanging rouble to a dollar was a crime with long jail time. But there was no problems to do that if you need. That's practice, not some assumptions. Why do you think they will succeed in banning underground exchanges if even USSR authorities was unable to do that?
It is crypto phase 2 which is just an accounting system for every single transaction and tracking of property for tax purposes through the use of NFT as proof of ownership. As we move into socialism/globalism you will want to own nothing because the taxes will be so high and you will use subscription services for everything including clothing and cooking utensils while living in a corporate housing pod. Before you know it you will figure out that you will be naked and homeless if you disobey at work. I'm not saying that people are not already slaves but this is going to allow things to get pushed much further in that direction.
Read this before you support their Utopian "walking cities" the video in there is super interesting.
https://fee.org/articles/john-b-calhoun-s-mouse-utopia-experiment-and-reflections-on-the-welfare-state/
Literally everything you told could be implemented with your existing card/bank accounts without any problems. Everything.
How exactly CBDC is needed for that? What CBDC feature/property exactly?
There is no problems to limit spending from your current card. There is no problems to limit your card to some region. There is no problems to track any transactions from your current card account, apply discounts or fees for certain purchases, connect it to any social credit or compliance system, automatically scale/enlarge your payments according to your vaccination status, whatever.
I can't find anything that really need exactly new blockchain based form of digital money instead of existing database based one.
Don't think of it as money or whatever, think of it as a single centralized accounting ledger to keep tabs on everything from debt to health records.
What technically prevent using card/bank account for that? Or a record of SSN, or anything?
You just add fileds to whatever database and fill them with links to SSN, car plate, medical data and other databases. Do that in each database and you will have all that in any place at any moment. It is very simple to do technically. And you don't need CBDC for that at all.
What is the real differences between CBDC and card/bank account?
And so on. I thing the key to CBDC puzzle is somewhere in such things, not in the stupid hype everybody discuss.
I think we have yet to see some of the angles but removing paper FIAT to make private transfers impossible is a part of the agenda. I suspect some form of UBI will be a motivation for accepting CBDC probably in the face of shortages. I suspect FIAT will crash while Crypto skyrockets garnering public interest in Crypto BUT there will be more Crypto failures. Will these be blockchain failures or more exchange failures or both? More Crypto scams as normies attempt to actually use it as currency? We will see. I think the CBDC will be slightly decentralized with existing legacy financial institutions acting as the nodes and as such the Government can encourage the financial institutions to infringe on citizens rights while appearing to keep their hands clean. I suspect we are going to see an uptick in card fraud and robberies in the short term causing the mindless masses to beg for the pre-made solution of CBDC as a knee jerk reaction. CBDC is happening, I know of a FED project manager working on it but I have yet to get a timeline. For a while I've been trying to view everything through the lens of biblical prophecy and CBDC seems to fit fairly well with "the mark" and not being able to buy or sell without it. There's a whole bunch of prophecy that is shaping up more and more by the day, I feel we are in Ezekiel 36 (and elsewhere in other books) with Israel being repopulated and zombies coming into play on the next page, isn't it going to be funny when the first resurrection happens and everyone defaults to Hollywood taught reactions instead of the biblical taught reaction in Isiah 26:20? Oh, and the pope's creepy snake audience hall is a reference to the last time Israel (God's people, now including Christians) was headed to Israel (the place), specifically Numbers 21:8.
I may not agree with you about theological significance of CBDC, but I appreciate idea that implementing CBDC needed for them for implementing biblical prophecy much more than weird assumption that "CBDC is necessary for them to ban cash".
So, we could add another possible explanation for CBDC - they need it for theological reasons, as a part of their relogious antichristian views.
Very astute observations. I agree they are hiding the real reason for this massive change, just as they lied about the reasons behind the massive, global military 5g deployment.
It's difficult to tell, but I think it ties into the Internet Of Bodies DARPA project that combines regular injections described as "vaccines" with micro tech/graphine, a UBI system for the soon to be jobless masses that grades them based on the soon coming Social Credit system, and their matrix-like VR metaverse that all the obese, injected, dumbed down masses will be hooked on (pun intended). I think they need a singular currency that also is on a block chain for it to work with all of these systems in real-time dystopia-style.
Singular currency could have sense only if most of the world is under the control. You can't create singular currency if nobody except few buddies agree to use it.
And again, there is no any technical problems to tie your card/bank account to all that UBI/SocialCredit/Metaverse, whatever and use that extended info in transactions to alter sums, limits, rates, taxes as they wish. And they have it right now without any CBDC.
I could imagine that there could be a singe worldwide CBDC with different local names but with shared blockchain, and that was one of my first guesses, but you need a unified world first.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I think they're doing. Shared blockchain, but different named CBDCs on the front end.
But it is senseless while there will be countries with cash. It will be relatively easy to just use the other country cash if your own country will get rid of it. There will appear a lot of gray/black exchanges where you "buy" something with CBDC in another country and immidiately get foreign cash from moneychanger. Then use that cash as you like. Another person who get that foreign cash could do the opposite - "do some service for a foreigner" along with giving cash to moneychanger and get CBDC.
This is one of the biggest reasons, I think. This is their plan for the One World Govt. They've had practice with oil and USD. The world is already unified, they're just erecting the columns, and the first of those is CBDC.
So the FED and BIS can control every account and monitor every transaction in real time. Regular banks no more.
This can give them many more tools for combating inflation, full surveillance and if you connect it to a social score system and ID you can control peoples behaviour, movement, velocity of spending and cut off dissidents from society. Central planners can also go negative interest rates with no cash.
Ive seen one example of chinas social credit system and it was about 7 women walking around the neighborhood writing on paper what people are doing then giving that ledger to someone for data entry. I thought it was high tech camera and face recognition. Guess its not that way every where. Perfect way to help people with that is to stage good samaritan acts. Seems like the easier way to raise your score.
They already do exactly the same with regular card/bank accounts without any problems. They could even see what exact groceries you bought in that transaction if you visited any large supermarket. I don't see any need for CBDC here.
You can't create anonymous card/account anymore, if you are not aware. You could only use fake identity to do kind of that stuff, but same way you could make a CBDC account with fake identlty.
What prevents doing that with regular card/bank account? From the technology point of view it does not matter if your account state and transactions stored in blockchain or in regular database. And there is no practical difference between "programming" CBDC or adding a trigger to a database.
What prevent them from doing that with regular card/bank account? Absolutely nothing.
So, again, there is obvious CBDC hype, but none of declared CBDC features are unique for CBDC only. CBDC is absolutely not necessary to implement everything they want, they could easily do using regular card/bank accounts. Even more - it is much easied to add simple small scripts to card/bank accounts to do all their shit, than to design, create and push completely new system from the ground.
So, what's the real point of CBDC? What CBDC really could give them, regular card/bank account can't?
-they would be legally allowed to micro manage it without legal hurdles. They can't do that now. Messing with someones account takes man hours and legalities.
-Because banks don't have the authority to do that they are just a business not a govt entity
-You cannot go negative interest with cash in circulation
They could legally introduce new form of money with all tons of legislations and other law crap, but they can't change some paragraph of current regulation? Are you kidding me?
The borders of "just a business" and "govt entity" is nearly non-existent today. Banks could bribe govt entities and govt entities could force business to do anything. Whoever want level of control they attach to CBDC, they could do that with regular bank/card accounts right now without any problem. Either bribe/lobby govt entities, either changing regulations/laws for business.
First, I'm talking about digital money - bank/card accounts. Second - inflation perfectly do exactly "negative interest" thing with cash. Longer you hold cash, cheaper it become, less things you could buy. Simple al that.
Cash have important property - it could be transacted and hold anonymously. Both card/bank accounts and CBDC couldn't.
I don't understand you. You won't have to wait long for the event to see for yourself.
I think that CBDC is a mokup or distraction of some kind. Because when you go to details about CBDC you will not find a single thing that require CBDC and can't be done using regular card/bank account system.
I don't see any real use of CBDC for those who try to implement it. They already have everything they need to do things they declare for CBDC.
Say, you already have a microwave oven. And then declare, that you have to buy another one, of different brand to do same things you already do with your old one. So why you want to buy new one, if there is no any real need for it? You like another brand? You want to impress somebody? You believed in ads? What is the real reason?
Why did DARPA create the "internet" when they could already achieve what they want with telegraph/phone lines + satellite comms?
You're only looking at the foundation, not what could be built upon it. And what could be built upon it is hard for us to imagine, and how it simplifies things on their end. The foundation is, of course, going to be at parity with the current tech.
We do this in the software world: rewrite things to make things easier to manage while the first version of the rewritten software is just at parity with the legacy one.
The task was completely different. IP protocol is basically different from what is used for phone lines and satcom. Basic principles and achieved results are different. IP add completely new properties and features that are impossible to implement over phone lines with their SS7 or satcoms,
Name me a single well-known software project that was rewritten from scratch and things become easier to manage.
All decent projects I know are polished and enhanced old code. Some did not changed a lot for decades, and all attempts to rewrite them in "modern language" or "to make easier to manage" by some stupid newfags failed completely.
I presume the main difference will be that CBDCs will be non-fungible, unlike the fiat money that currently exists. This will allow every token to be tracked, and potentially invalidated in the future if a user performs a non-authorised operation. No one is going to want to knowingly take tokens from a black market operator if there is a risk the authorities could destroy the value of these tokens with the simple click of a button. This differs from fiat currency as there are loop holes that make money laundering possible, ultimately because fiat currency is fungible.
Valid point, but I can't figure out real-world example. Say, some conspiracy theorist paid $1 CBDC for groceries in dad&mom shop, they paid $10 CBDC using that "bad" $1 CBDC for car replacement part, then that bad $1 CBDC was paid as salary to a worker that made that spare part. Then government find out that first person is a conspiracy theorist and disable his $1 CBDC. So completely innocent worker of spare parts plant who wear pride parade pin and have a trans as a best friend will lose $1 CBDC he honestly earned working hard.
Weird.
And, meanwhilem same thing could be done with cash. Government could declare that $10 banknotes with numbers from XXXXXX to XXXXYY was used in some bad activity and so no longer valid.
To do the same thing with card/bank account will be more tricky - currently you can't determine where $1 on your account you paid somewhere come from.
If you want just to alter money somebody own currently, there are no difference between CBDC and card/bank account and even cash, if you somehow know numbers of banknotes.
So yes, your point is valid, but what is the real-word use of that feature?
But they have the complete history of every transaction. The innocent spare parts worker was effectively defrauded by the conspiracy theorist using illegal tokens (they can trace the chain of every token). Thus, they can make it so the conspiracy theorist now owes the spare parts worker the $1. If the conspiracy theorist has no tokens (because all of his tokens were made illegal), they could take the tokens from his family to pay his debt, or make him into a permanent "debt slave" of his "victims" until his pays back his debt (this could also carry to his family if he decides to kill himself).
But the government cannot retrospectively identify every banknote used by the conspiracy theorist. With the CBDC, since every token is tracked, they know the id number of every token ever used by the conspiracy theorist. They can identify these tokens retrospectively i.e. once they identify the conspiracy theorist, they can find all his transactions and the id of all the tokens he used. They can then invalidate these and punish him as above.