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17
Gee, Scoob, I wonder if screencap is relevant to pop music's effect on the brain? (link in comments) (media.conspiracies.win)
posted 3 years ago by glownigger8675309 3 years ago by glownigger8675309 +17 / -0
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– Mad_King_Kalak 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

You're redefining intelligence as part of your reply. The ability to memorize facts and spit them out, in context, is intelligence, or a type of it at least.

A good memory, of course, plays a large role in the ability to score well on an IQ test. It's why billions of Chinamen score well on tests but aren't creative enough to make new things (at least not since the Middle Ages).

Likewise, the classic example of a "book smart" but stupid person is, generally speaking, very low in emotional intelligence. They can't "read" people, and have a distinct lack of natural charisma, and charisma (while some of it can be learned) is more mental than physical, and natural charisma is as unequally distributed as height or the ability to memorize things. In fact, as far as we can measure such things as charisma, it's on a normal probability distribution akin to IQ.

Bottom line on this, if people have physical strengths and weaknesses, say a natural athletic ability or lack of dexterity, they similarly have intellectual ones.

In sports, it was a compliment, years ago, to say to someone "they make the best of their ability." That is, he was no natural, but through hard work he succeeded. This is also implicitly acknowledging that there is a lack of ability in many people, and that some people have things come easier.

[break break]

Lastly, people take any discussion of IQ two ways. First camp wants to pretend that the races, or sexes, don't have IQ differences, so they do some real mental gymnastics to say it's environment. As if we could just give laptops to blacks in Africa and they will be Newtons. That, let me assure you, is not me.

The second camp is aware that there are IQ differences in the races/sexes, but take any criticism of IQ as some sort of science denialism (ironically). I think I would put you in this second camp.

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– StopTrackingMe 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

A good memory, of course, plays a large role in the ability to score well on an IQ test

That's not true at all. You can say that about the SAT, but modern IQ tests don't use questions that involve memory (minus holding the question in your head). They are made of very simple to comprehend, but highly abstract questions.

a "book smart" but stupid person is [...] very low in emotional intelligence

You're glossing over the entire point - the "book smart" person is only "smart" with topics they studied, i.e. they can only recite facts. They can't engage in new/novel information. They can memorize an entire math textbook but be unable to form new mathematical abstractions.

You can say that this rote memorization is a form of intelligence, but memorization will not help you do well on an IQ test. That's not how they work, and it's not what they measure. Memorizing things but being unable to form novel connections sounds pretty stupid to me.

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– Mad_King_Kalak 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

Oh it is entirely true. The questions also follow a lot of the same tropes. Same as it's possible to prep for the LSAT, which is a logic test, memory plays a role because of pattern recognition. What you're saying, if taken just one step further than where you're at, is that if someone loses their memory (dementia) but they keep their abstract reasoning, they are still high intelligence, and that's just plain wrong. The cogitative power involves the use of memory and imagination.

You're also eliding on your terms again by using "smart" as a synonym for "memorization" and it's not. I also note, that you're not responding at all to the point that we know from experience, that charisma, while aspects of it can be learned, is also intuitive.

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– StopTrackingMe 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

No, it’s not possible to prep for an IQ test. I’ve taken one with a professional evaluation. You obviously have no idea what an IQ test is like. If you want, you can take one to understand what it is. Chinamen studying for SATs won't give them a high IQ score. Only the proxy SAT score, which is not a real IQ test, so it can be manipulated.

Why are you conflating natural athletic ability and charisma with intelligence? The topic is that verbal intelligence, one of the classic multiple intelligences, is perfectly encapsulated by IQ. It's not a separate metric. The g-factor has been studied and it nearly perfectly correlates IQ to "verbal intelligence" every single time. There's no wiggle room here. There's no verbal IQ separate from IQ.

Memorize whatever you want, your pattern recognition for novel patterns will not improve. Pattern recognition has been extensively studied and has led to the most success-correlated psychometric test ever devised. If you have a high verbal intelligence, you have high spatial, musical, and logical intelligence. You'll need some effort to build those concrete skills, but your ceiling is much higher in every single one of those categories than somebody with a low IQ.

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– Mad_King_Kalak 1 point 3 years ago +1 / -0

Yes, it is possible to prep for an IQ test by taking practice IQ tests. It's done all the time. I'm supposing, not to get to personal here but you brought it up, that you took one, scored fairly well, and thus are somewhat personally invested in their meaning.

I was using natural athletic ability as an analogy. BTW, physio-kinetics is a type of intelligence. Mohammed Ali's was a dumb as a box of rocks logically, but he understood human mechanics and movement to an amazing extent. If was all training, than any person, given enough training can become a professional athlete or artist like Raphael. That 10,000 hours estimate is discredited nonsense.

As for charisma, I see you refuse to answer that point. To a large extent, leaders are BORN as much as they are made by opportunity and training.

I'm not disputing that overarching mental strengths and weaknesses is a "mental horsepower". IQ is only a measurement of this; perhaps when we can map the brain fully we can see it rather than the shadow it casts. Merely augmenting our understanding of IQ through an acknowledgement that real-world experience, and the same people that do IQ tests have realized, that some people are good at some things naturally and worse at others.

p.s. Your discounting of memorization is so far out of whack with how the cognitive power acts, it's unreal. You're essentially saying that the ability to perceive new patterns is disconnected from the ability to remember and compare them to old ones (which is processed through the imagination, because that's how we access memories).

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