Mesh-type networks aren't all that uncommon. And the concept does not have unavoidable problems, there just isn't as much use for the technology as you'd think.
I tried nearly everything - Z-Wave (not really mesh, it needs a controller), ZigBee mesh mode, Netsukuku, BATMAN and others. All of them show low bandwidth and high and unstable latency. And there always was some problems when nodes just disappear from network. Interference on working frequency often just ruined everything and network does not come back on its own. Name one that works reliably, fast and repair itself without intervention.
Nope, when you want that real-time surveillance, you just turn it on
Possible, yes. But still will be noticeable by phone user.
I'm not sure why I didn't call this out before... but why would a tea kettle or dishwasher, even a "smart" one have bluetooth? This shit's wi-fi.
Saw a lot of shit with Bluetooth. WiFi shit is much worse, you need not only app on the phone, but also a connection to the some "cloud service" in internet. And phone app is connecting to that cloud that will send a command to turn on your fucking kettle. IDK, but seems that here WiFi stuff is less popular.
Yes, consumer mesh networks have some work, but there is nothing inherent about the concept that makes it a difficulty. With the resources required to develop and implement 5G, developing better local mesh networks would be a cinch.
still will be noticeable by phone user.
Not really. The reason I say this is because phones nowadays suck. It is not uncommon for a phone to enter into a memory loop or some shit and drain the battery so fast the phone gets hot to the touch. A slight increase in idle consumption for a couple days wouldn't be something someone notices. Even if it lasts for weeks. The person would just think they need a new phone or battery.
Consumers nowadays are complicit in their phones sucking. A lot of times they think it's their fault ("I downloaded too many apps") when their phone sucks at doing something it absolutely should be able to do flawlessly.
cloud service
And since so many of these devices are wi-fi based, why bother with the 5G again? If you're relying on consumers buying smart devices with bluetooth in order to have the surveillance chip, then why not just rely on them buying the far more common devices with wi-fi and having them connect to their own network? And not having to worry about rolling a whole new network to spy on people who are already willing to have smart devices in their homes?
None of it makes any sense.
With that said, derailing the conversation a bit, smart devices that require a connection to a cloud service suck. But many smart devices can be connected to the internet, but hosted entirely locally. Personally, I use Home Assistant running on a local server to integrate with all sorts of smart devices, which are all blocked from seeing the internet by my router.
With the resources required to develop and implement 5G, developing better local mesh networks would be a cinch.
Development of new generation never stops. You just need to push your demands, and that's all. 6G network is already in development and collecting proposals.
Not really. The reason I say this is because phones nowadays suck. It is not uncommon for a phone to enter into a memory loop or some shit and drain the battery so fast the phone gets hot to the touch. A slight increase in idle consumption for a couple days wouldn't be something someone notices. Even if it lasts for weeks. The person would just think they need a new phone or battery.
True. That's what will really happen. I just forget how ignorant regular smartphone user is.
And since so many of these devices are wi-fi based, why bother with the 5G again?
It depends on privider connection and user payments. Unreliable.
I use Home Assistant running on a local server to integrate with all sorts of smart devices, which are all blocked from seeing the internet by my router.
I experimented heavily with all that "IoT" stuff long before the term "IoT" popped up. DMX512 for lights and other outputs and raw RS485 for switches, sensors and other controls (should have been MODBUS, but I'm lazy).
And all that switching home things from phone is a complete shit. There is nothing better than regular physical mechanical switches and knobs, and if you want some automation there should be some mechanical drives in them. Because when you turn on the light in the room from computer, wall switch should be in on position, so when I want to turn it off i don't need to think a second or guess current state. Ergonomics. But at the time I could not find such wall switches and knobs, and I was too lasy to modify regular ones with servos and other stuff.
It is very uncomfortable to control home lights and all the stuff from the phone or some panel or whatever. And there always should be manual failover. For everything.
I want to try some gesture switches, you know, like that glowing and beeping things in SciFi movies that opens the doors, that triggered by hand waving in the front of device. Easy things. At least they could be found useful in garage and toilet/bath when your hands dirty or wet.
My home is very involved with IoT, but I implemented everything with strict rules for myself. 1) Everything has to be locally hosted and 2) Everything has to be able to be intuitively manually controlled. and 3) All of the "smart" components cannot be part of a disposable part (i.e. no smart light bulbs). and 4) The whole system is reasonably reliable and low maintenance
If someone who's never been to my house cannot figure out how to operate everything, then I have failed.
What I've found to work best is these little relays that fit behind the switches in the electrical box. These essentially use the output from the switch as an input to the relay along with information it gets from your smart controller (I use Home Assistant as it can be locally hosted and is open source). You can configure them a variety of ways.
I was originally worried about the "up is on, down is off" mantra being broken, but it really is not a big deal. 3-way switches (where you have one switch on one entrance to a room and a second on the other, both controlling the same light) have been a thing for a long time and they have this problem. So the concept isn't particularly foreign. It's completely intuitive to flip the switch in whichever direction it is not in currently.
You can configure them to turn on and off the light when it sees a state change on the switch (i.e. if you turn the switch on, then turn the light off from your phone, turning the switch "off" will turn the light back on) or you can configure them to always use the switch's actual position (i.e. if you turn the switch on, then turn the light off from your phone, you would have to turn the switch "off" then back "on" for the light to turn on.) This latter method sounds unintuitive to me, so I have never tried it.
The great thing about these relays is that I can use whatever switch I want. I have had dedicated smart switches in the past, too. These kind of suck because they are clicky like a computer mouse instead of definitive like a light switch. I also found them surprisingly unreliable, but that could just be the ones I had.
And the other great thing is they are easily installed in other things that you may want to control. The light above my stove that is integrated into the fan is a good example.
Personally, I have found all of this effort to be far more than a gimmick. Being able to turn off all of the lights in one go from the bed after laying down is very nice. In the past if I left on one light at the end of the house at the night after laying down, I'd just leave it on and deal with the faint light making its way through the house. Being able to set it to randomly turn on lights when I am on vacation provides some degree of peace of mind. I also have it set up to give me alerts if someone turns on a light while I am away (or unlocks a door from the inside, like if they break in through a window, but open the door to walk my stuff out). Not a substitute for a proper alarm system, but it's something.
Another huge benefit is being able to turn on all of my outdoor lights at once. I have it set up that if I double tap my front porch light switch, it turns on all of the outdoor lights, so I don't even need to take out my phone for this feature. Before, to turn on all of these lights, I'd have to go to the front door, the back door, and in the garage to get to all of the physical switches.
That's absolutely critical thing that most people don't unserstand at all.
I was originally worried about the "up is on, down is off" mantra being broken, but it really is not a big deal.
That thing annoyed me all the time. :)
Personally, I have found all of this effort to be far more than a gimmick. Being able to turn off all of the lights in one go from the bed after laying down is very nice.
Really, I turn off light only when I want dark in that place for some reason. Most time lights are on all the time. LED bulbs (lower the working current a little, changing the LED current setting resistor, they will last forever) eat too little power to care about. So, there are no any reason to turn off the light now. I even don't have a switches in some places like toilet or bath.
Being able to set it to randomly turn on lights when I am on vacation provides some degree of peace of mind.
That is nice feature for towns, I suppose.
Not a substitute for a proper alarm system, but it's something.
We rarely lock the doors here, but I guess it could be useful in less calm areas. However, I have some IP cameras and simple DVR program "motion" that analyse stream and record if something moves to watch on animals and weather events.
turn on all of my outdoor lights at once.
I just installed a photorelay, that turn on all outdoor lights on dusk and turn off on the dawn. No need to do anything at all. But may be it will be better to do it with timer that calculate time of sunset and sunrise for every day. Photrelay could turn on light during severe thunderstorm, when it come dark and then periodically dim the llights on lightnings.
I tried nearly everything - Z-Wave (not really mesh, it needs a controller), ZigBee mesh mode, Netsukuku, BATMAN and others. All of them show low bandwidth and high and unstable latency. And there always was some problems when nodes just disappear from network. Interference on working frequency often just ruined everything and network does not come back on its own. Name one that works reliably, fast and repair itself without intervention.
Possible, yes. But still will be noticeable by phone user.
Saw a lot of shit with Bluetooth. WiFi shit is much worse, you need not only app on the phone, but also a connection to the some "cloud service" in internet. And phone app is connecting to that cloud that will send a command to turn on your fucking kettle. IDK, but seems that here WiFi stuff is less popular.
Yes, consumer mesh networks have some work, but there is nothing inherent about the concept that makes it a difficulty. With the resources required to develop and implement 5G, developing better local mesh networks would be a cinch.
Not really. The reason I say this is because phones nowadays suck. It is not uncommon for a phone to enter into a memory loop or some shit and drain the battery so fast the phone gets hot to the touch. A slight increase in idle consumption for a couple days wouldn't be something someone notices. Even if it lasts for weeks. The person would just think they need a new phone or battery.
Consumers nowadays are complicit in their phones sucking. A lot of times they think it's their fault ("I downloaded too many apps") when their phone sucks at doing something it absolutely should be able to do flawlessly.
And since so many of these devices are wi-fi based, why bother with the 5G again? If you're relying on consumers buying smart devices with bluetooth in order to have the surveillance chip, then why not just rely on them buying the far more common devices with wi-fi and having them connect to their own network? And not having to worry about rolling a whole new network to spy on people who are already willing to have smart devices in their homes?
None of it makes any sense.
With that said, derailing the conversation a bit, smart devices that require a connection to a cloud service suck. But many smart devices can be connected to the internet, but hosted entirely locally. Personally, I use Home Assistant running on a local server to integrate with all sorts of smart devices, which are all blocked from seeing the internet by my router.
Development of new generation never stops. You just need to push your demands, and that's all. 6G network is already in development and collecting proposals.
True. That's what will really happen. I just forget how ignorant regular smartphone user is.
It depends on privider connection and user payments. Unreliable.
I experimented heavily with all that "IoT" stuff long before the term "IoT" popped up. DMX512 for lights and other outputs and raw RS485 for switches, sensors and other controls (should have been MODBUS, but I'm lazy). And all that switching home things from phone is a complete shit. There is nothing better than regular physical mechanical switches and knobs, and if you want some automation there should be some mechanical drives in them. Because when you turn on the light in the room from computer, wall switch should be in on position, so when I want to turn it off i don't need to think a second or guess current state. Ergonomics. But at the time I could not find such wall switches and knobs, and I was too lasy to modify regular ones with servos and other stuff.
It is very uncomfortable to control home lights and all the stuff from the phone or some panel or whatever. And there always should be manual failover. For everything.
I want to try some gesture switches, you know, like that glowing and beeping things in SciFi movies that opens the doors, that triggered by hand waving in the front of device. Easy things. At least they could be found useful in garage and toilet/bath when your hands dirty or wet.
My home is very involved with IoT, but I implemented everything with strict rules for myself. 1) Everything has to be locally hosted and 2) Everything has to be able to be intuitively manually controlled. and 3) All of the "smart" components cannot be part of a disposable part (i.e. no smart light bulbs). and 4) The whole system is reasonably reliable and low maintenance
If someone who's never been to my house cannot figure out how to operate everything, then I have failed.
What I've found to work best is these little relays that fit behind the switches in the electrical box. These essentially use the output from the switch as an input to the relay along with information it gets from your smart controller (I use Home Assistant as it can be locally hosted and is open source). You can configure them a variety of ways.
I was originally worried about the "up is on, down is off" mantra being broken, but it really is not a big deal. 3-way switches (where you have one switch on one entrance to a room and a second on the other, both controlling the same light) have been a thing for a long time and they have this problem. So the concept isn't particularly foreign. It's completely intuitive to flip the switch in whichever direction it is not in currently.
You can configure them to turn on and off the light when it sees a state change on the switch (i.e. if you turn the switch on, then turn the light off from your phone, turning the switch "off" will turn the light back on) or you can configure them to always use the switch's actual position (i.e. if you turn the switch on, then turn the light off from your phone, you would have to turn the switch "off" then back "on" for the light to turn on.) This latter method sounds unintuitive to me, so I have never tried it.
The great thing about these relays is that I can use whatever switch I want. I have had dedicated smart switches in the past, too. These kind of suck because they are clicky like a computer mouse instead of definitive like a light switch. I also found them surprisingly unreliable, but that could just be the ones I had.
And the other great thing is they are easily installed in other things that you may want to control. The light above my stove that is integrated into the fan is a good example.
Personally, I have found all of this effort to be far more than a gimmick. Being able to turn off all of the lights in one go from the bed after laying down is very nice. In the past if I left on one light at the end of the house at the night after laying down, I'd just leave it on and deal with the faint light making its way through the house. Being able to set it to randomly turn on lights when I am on vacation provides some degree of peace of mind. I also have it set up to give me alerts if someone turns on a light while I am away (or unlocks a door from the inside, like if they break in through a window, but open the door to walk my stuff out). Not a substitute for a proper alarm system, but it's something.
Another huge benefit is being able to turn on all of my outdoor lights at once. I have it set up that if I double tap my front porch light switch, it turns on all of the outdoor lights, so I don't even need to take out my phone for this feature. Before, to turn on all of these lights, I'd have to go to the front door, the back door, and in the garage to get to all of the physical switches.
That's absolutely critical thing that most people don't unserstand at all.
That thing annoyed me all the time. :)
Really, I turn off light only when I want dark in that place for some reason. Most time lights are on all the time. LED bulbs (lower the working current a little, changing the LED current setting resistor, they will last forever) eat too little power to care about. So, there are no any reason to turn off the light now. I even don't have a switches in some places like toilet or bath.
That is nice feature for towns, I suppose.
We rarely lock the doors here, but I guess it could be useful in less calm areas. However, I have some IP cameras and simple DVR program "motion" that analyse stream and record if something moves to watch on animals and weather events.
I just installed a photorelay, that turn on all outdoor lights on dusk and turn off on the dawn. No need to do anything at all. But may be it will be better to do it with timer that calculate time of sunset and sunrise for every day. Photrelay could turn on light during severe thunderstorm, when it come dark and then periodically dim the llights on lightnings.