Please Learn Math - Conspiracies - Conspiracy Theories & Facts

Please Learn Math

posted 2 years ago by GnarlyToad 2 years ago by GnarlyToad +5 / -10

I continually see memes quoting statistics that claim to show the ineffectiveness of vaccines.

Anybody with even middle school level math competency should be able to see through the misrepresentation of these statistics.

A recent example stated that 85.7% of deaths over a particular week in Scotland were vaccinated people. The conclusion drawn was that the vaccines don't work because the vast majority of people dying were vaccinated.

What was left out in the post was that 94% of Scotland has received at least 1 dose and 74% has received 3 doses. That leaves only less than 6% of the population unvaxxed accounting for 12% of the deaths. This data suggests (suggests, doesn't prove anything), just the opposite of the conclusion drawn.

Misuse of statistics makes people look either stupid or dishonest. If you see something posted like this, you should immediately question your source. Anybody passing off this kind of stuff isn't vetting their sources or their numbers either through actual intent to mislead or sheer stupidity. Either way, the source cannot be trusted. Trusting such a source is just allowing yourself to be duped (which makes you a dupe) or a liar yourself.

Hold yourself to higher standards of integrity, please, everybody. It doesn't help anybody to lie about facts or pass on lies about facts.

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– deleted 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

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– GnarlyToad [S] -2 points 2 years ago +1 / -3

This has nothing to do with my argument. I see anti-vaxxers making false and misleading claims, distorting studies, and misinterpreting statistics. Thus the title: Please learn math. If you're refusing to get vaccinated so you can stick it the man, more power to you. I respect that. Just don't misrepresent statistics in embarrassingly false ways to do it. Stand up and say: I refuse to take the vaccine for moral, political, whatever reasons. That makes sense.

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– Dorktron4Runner 1 point 2 years ago +1 / -0

Since you keep ignoring my question on which vaccine research you trust, I’m just going to interject here. Stop using the term “anti-vaxxer”. Or I will just sling a term back at you: “science denier”. That’s you. You don’t understand math, immunity, virology, evolution, the list goes on.

Vaccines aren’t science and they don’t work. If they did, they’d be 100% effective and you could force/manipulate/encourage people into taking them because, you know, there would be irrefutable proof of their usefulness. But you can’t because they aren’t scientifically effective and that doesn’t even take into account all of the adverse injuries and death associated with vaccines. Unless you can point me to a study that shows vaccinated people aren’t getting sick from COVID, the seasonal flu, polio, etc. But you can’t because those vaccines don’t work either. In fact, they prolong these illnesses. Look at the explosion of polio in Africa, the increased rates of autism after MMR vaccines.

What do you understand about the immune system? Herd immunity? When viruses mutate, if you believe in germ theory, they become less deadly and more communicable. Our immune response then creates anti-bodies for that virus and the cycle continues, as it has for millennia. So why force people into ineffective vaccines when nature runs its course and eliminates the threat. You have to trust your body’s immune response, or does the immune system no longer exist?

I don’t think you fully comprehend what’s even in COVID vaccines. Since you’re a mathematician, are you denying that VAERS, and these studies showing increased rates of hospitalizations and death associated with vaccinated people? Do you deny Pfizer’s own trial papers that are releasing showing people died and were injured during their trials? Do you refute the 9 pages of side effects associated with COVID experimental injections? If you’re denying it, what’s your proof that the vaccines work? That the numbers you refute are false? That trial research from the vaccine makers themselves is wrong? You can pick and choose numbers here and there and yell “anti-vaxxer!!” but you’re a science denier.

I’ve known loads of vax shills such as yourself over the years. You all resort to falsehoods, name calling, seething with a little side of cope. You’re a pawn, a mouthpiece for the billion dollar companies that love useful idiots such as yourself.

Source: I’ve never been vaccinated and, miraculously, I’m still alive.

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– GnarlyToad [S] -1 points 2 years ago +1 / -2

Since you keep ignoring my question on which vaccine research you trust, I’m just going to interject here.

I just scrolled through all the replies I've received and I don't see any others from you. I haven't ignored your question.

Stop using the term “anti-vaxxer”. Or I will just sling a term back at you: “science denier”. That’s you. You don’t understand math, immunity, virology, evolution, the list goes on.

I literally cite the science on this. Here is a study from one of the top medical journals in the world:

Covid-19 Vaccine Effectiveness against the Omicron (B.1.1.529) Variant

You will immediately gainsay this scientific study (just watch) published in a top science journal, recognized by top scientists all over the world, but then call me the "science denier." That's truly, truly Orwellian, dude.

That’s you. You don’t understand math, immunity, virology, evolution, the list goes on.

Literally an unsupported claim hurled in utter desperation to protect your cherished biases.

Vaccines aren’t science and they don’t work.

Hmmm....in addition to the New England Journal of Medicine article above, let's see what else we can find on this, shall we?

Here is a 1965 British Medicine Journal study on the pertussis vaccine, which as is noted in the discussion:

So effective are these vaccines that type 1,2 strains of Bordetella pertussis have been virtually eliminated in this country.

You aren't a science denier, right? But...right...you will absolutely deny this science.

JAMA, another top journal published the research on the effectiveness of polio vaccines, but unfortunately that's behind a paywall. But it's there if you want to buy it.

Here's an article on measles vaccines:

Effectiveness of measles vaccination and vitamin A treatment

Which states:

A meta-analysis of these studies found that vaccination was 85% [95% confidence interval (CI) 83–87] effective in preventing measles disease

All this readily found on the internet (google scholar works well). But you aren't an "anti-vaxxer," right? You understand all this science-y stuff better than even the scientists, I guess.

So saying "vaccines aren't science and they don't work" isn't being an anti-vaxxer? It isn't being anti-science when peer reviewed science journals have published hundred, thousands of studies on the effectiveness of vaccines.

If they did, they’d be 100% effective and you could force/manipulate/encourage people into taking them because, you know, there would be irrefutable proof of their usefulness.

Back to not understanding math. Every damn time. Look, the idea is to reduce the contagion rate to below 1, so the number of infected people decreases instead of increases. So a vaccine doesn't have to be 100% effective to protect the community. That doesn't mean nobody will be infected, but it does mean fewer and fewer people will be infected. Which is better than just letting everybody get infected. (don't start on "herd immunity," I guarantee you will misrepresent that concept as well).

But you can’t because they aren’t scientifically effective and that doesn’t even take into account all of the adverse injuries and death associated with vaccines.

Can you cite a scientific study on "adverse injuries and death associated with vaccines?"

I found this study straight away:

Vaccine Adverse Events: Separating Myth from Reality

That article says this:

Vaccines are one of the most successful medical advances in modern times.

No mention of "deaths associated with vaccines." I did notice you used the term "associated with" giving you wiggle room because you know there's no causal relationship.

less you can point me to a study that shows vaccinated people aren’t getting sick from COVID, the seasonal flu, polio, etc. But you can’t because those vaccines don’t work either. In fact, they prolong these illnesses. Look at the explosion of polio in Africa, the increased rates of autism after MMR vaccines.

Vaccines virtually eradicated polio in the US. Again, you're making many claims. Where are the peer reviewed studies supporting your claims? It's just a lot of words strung together unless you have scientific evidence. (A polio outbreak in Africa is not evidence of the ineffectiveness of vaccines.)

Herd immunity?

oop. There it is. Herd immunity. I'm pretty sure you have no clue what herd immunity is. Here's some science to help you:

Herd immunity is an important—and often misunderstood—public health phenomenon

National Academy of SCIENCE. You aren't going to deny more science are you?

Since you’re a mathematician, are you denying that VAERS, and these studies showing increased rates of hospitalizations and death associated with vaccinated people?

What studies? If these studies exist, why don't you explicitly cite them? I bet because they aren't science. I can say without even reading them that they aren't science, because scientists wouldn't use VAERS to establish any causal links between vaccines and vaccine injuries. How do I know that? Because VAERS itself says the data on that site isn't suitable for that purpose:

VAERS reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable.