I came to this topic through the videos of John Chang, head of the Mo Pai school of nei kung. I tried to find out as much as possible of that practice and their techniques.
Basically, what I (try to) do is horse stance for a little while, followed by LDT (lower dantien) breathing, aka “vase breathing” as it is called in Tummo. I try to extend my breath cycles as long as possible:
Inhale (to diaphragm) > hold >
contract > exhale > hold + contract > repeat
I’ve felt undeniable sensations, and have seen what appears to be physical or semi-physical manifestions of chi (black “electricity” arcing between my fingers, during two particularly long horse stances).
I’ve yet to actually get my shit together enough to dedicate the amount of time to this practice that is obviously required. That’s my big problem right now.
Two things that I seek further information on are the “rules” that apply to storing jing and grounding oneself to the earth. In my study of Mo Pai, it was stated by reputable sources that one must be “grounded” to the earth for the meditation to have any hope of productivity, and one must not have spilled their jing within the prior 72 hours or else the LDT can be irreparably “torn”. These two things have acted as stumbling blocks, or maybe even “excuses” to not practice. Do you have anything you could share on anything in this comment?
what changes in health have you noticed after starting to practice this? Even changes that seemingly have no connection with practicing these techniques
I’m not sure I have an answer to this, mostly because my amount of practice has been quite inadequate, and sporadic. Only within the last year or so have I come to realize that despite being aware of these things, and their importance, I was using excuses or “obligations” to avoid doing what I needed to be doing (diligent practice)...my drive is... lacking I suppose. It’s too easy for me to not practice? This seems to be my biggest hurdle to overcome...
Can you describe the results the exercises are supposed to have? I want to compare them with Daoist methods since the lineage is said to include Zhang Sanfeng.
Only secondhand, from what I’ve read (mainly in the Magus of Java) :
Level 1) learn how to draw in yang chi, and bring with it yin chi
Level 2) learn how to compress/condense this qi in the LDT
Level 3) learn how to move this condensed (but unmerged, still separately yin and yang) chi
Level 4) learn how to fuse yin and yang chi
Levels 5-72 I’ve not seen discussed before, beyond their acknowledgement and the claim that John Chang had a book that contained them, which had been passed down through his school. I’ve been meaning to reread the magus of java actually, as you can likely tell by my descriptions I’m far from knowledgeable and some key details have slipped my mind. Also, there is an air of secrecy surrounding Mo Pai, with various people claiming the practices are one way, and others claiming those practices to be faulty, and can lead to dis-ease, so I’m not really sure about much more than the first level’s seated meditation technique, of which there is a fair few sources to go by and cross-reference (kosta’s book, some of Jim’s students who’ve shared what he conveyed about the topic, forum posts from supposed chinese/indonesian students, those kinds of things).
Here is the copy of the Magus of Java that I refer to:
Also, how is it going with Baopuzi and the foreword and afterword of Wuzhenpian?
I apologize (even though I’ve only harmed myself through inaction), I’m only now looking up those texts (excuses excuses). I’ll start with the versions you linked and use google to work through them.
Ffs I just refreshed the page on accident and lost an 8 paragraph response lol. I’m going to keep it a bit briefer this time to avoid further heartache lol. Forgive me if I sound terse!
Regarding the LDT, that is interesting, because while I have seen multiple sources mention the obvious negative effects of, shall we say, “unproductive use” of jing/vital essence, other than in the sources referencing Mo Pai, I’ve likewise not heard of “tearing” one’s LDT. I’m probably overthinking it, considering that, but it did make sense given the purpose of “packing chi” into the LDT being the foundation of the Level 1 practice.
On the contrary, there are many sex related techniques that turn it into a health improving activity, instead of one that wastes jing and qi, that are meant to be practiced alongside other methods.
Yes, I’ve heard passing mention of these things, like in the form of tantric yoga, and references to “orgone”, which I haven’t followed up on much. I think maybe I should be more concerned with the basics, and making sure my own practice is in order, before involving another in it. I could be wrong though?
The Mo Pai lineage supposedly includes Zhang Sanfeng, but if we look at descriptions of Daoist techniques and compare them with Mo Pai, differences are visible.
But if there are results, then there are results
Interesting! I had forgotten that, and not read much at all about the “inventor” of tai chi until you mentioned his name. A few purported members of Mo Pai are mentioned in the book by Kosta, and Zhang (named as Chang Sanfeng) is listed as one of only two or three who had climbed the heights of the practice to its peak (~page 105 if you’re interested). I would be very interested to hear you expand on this part.
How long were the "long horse stances"? Would be good if you can find a picture of what it looks like.
About 45-60 minutes. Thinking back to these experiences, it didn’t happen often, and at the time I was trying to absorb information on this subject from anywhere I could find it, which at the time was a book called Energy Work by a Robert Bruce. In that book was an exercise called something like “heart circuit psi/chi ball”, which augmented the standard horse stance by imagining a circuit with your arms (as if one was hugging a large tree) and heart comprising a circuit through which a “chi ball” flows/rotates. This, I remember, made my heart noticeably race, and for whatever reason I haven’t done that exercise since. The reason was largely the many recommendations/warnings I had seen against “skipping ahead” to higher chakras with an undeveloped LDT or root chakra...I think “kundalini sickness” was the thing being warned about. Would you agree with those warnings?
I came to this topic through the videos of John Chang, head of the Mo Pai school of nei kung. I tried to find out as much as possible of that practice and their techniques.
Basically, what I (try to) do is horse stance for a little while, followed by LDT (lower dantien) breathing, aka “vase breathing” as it is called in Tummo. I try to extend my breath cycles as long as possible:
Inhale (to diaphragm) > hold >
I’ve felt undeniable sensations, and have seen what appears to be physical or semi-physical manifestions of chi (black “electricity” arcing between my fingers, during two particularly long horse stances).
I’ve yet to actually get my shit together enough to dedicate the amount of time to this practice that is obviously required. That’s my big problem right now.
Two things that I seek further information on are the “rules” that apply to storing jing and grounding oneself to the earth. In my study of Mo Pai, it was stated by reputable sources that one must be “grounded” to the earth for the meditation to have any hope of productivity, and one must not have spilled their jing within the prior 72 hours or else the LDT can be irreparably “torn”. These two things have acted as stumbling blocks, or maybe even “excuses” to not practice. Do you have anything you could share on anything in this comment?
Thanks friend
I’m not sure I have an answer to this, mostly because my amount of practice has been quite inadequate, and sporadic. Only within the last year or so have I come to realize that despite being aware of these things, and their importance, I was using excuses or “obligations” to avoid doing what I needed to be doing (diligent practice)...my drive is... lacking I suppose. It’s too easy for me to not practice? This seems to be my biggest hurdle to overcome...
Only secondhand, from what I’ve read (mainly in the Magus of Java) :
Level 1) learn how to draw in yang chi, and bring with it yin chi
Level 2) learn how to compress/condense this qi in the LDT
Level 3) learn how to move this condensed (but unmerged, still separately yin and yang) chi
Level 4) learn how to fuse yin and yang chi
Levels 5-72 I’ve not seen discussed before, beyond their acknowledgement and the claim that John Chang had a book that contained them, which had been passed down through his school. I’ve been meaning to reread the magus of java actually, as you can likely tell by my descriptions I’m far from knowledgeable and some key details have slipped my mind. Also, there is an air of secrecy surrounding Mo Pai, with various people claiming the practices are one way, and others claiming those practices to be faulty, and can lead to dis-ease, so I’m not really sure about much more than the first level’s seated meditation technique, of which there is a fair few sources to go by and cross-reference (kosta’s book, some of Jim’s students who’ve shared what he conveyed about the topic, forum posts from supposed chinese/indonesian students, those kinds of things).
Here is the copy of the Magus of Java that I refer to:
https://www.sacred-magick.com/free/files/The%20Magus%20of%20Java.pdf
I apologize (even though I’ve only harmed myself through inaction), I’m only now looking up those texts (excuses excuses). I’ll start with the versions you linked and use google to work through them.
Thanks
:)
Ffs I just refreshed the page on accident and lost an 8 paragraph response lol. I’m going to keep it a bit briefer this time to avoid further heartache lol. Forgive me if I sound terse!
Regarding the LDT, that is interesting, because while I have seen multiple sources mention the obvious negative effects of, shall we say, “unproductive use” of jing/vital essence, other than in the sources referencing Mo Pai, I’ve likewise not heard of “tearing” one’s LDT. I’m probably overthinking it, considering that, but it did make sense given the purpose of “packing chi” into the LDT being the foundation of the Level 1 practice.
Yes, I’ve heard passing mention of these things, like in the form of tantric yoga, and references to “orgone”, which I haven’t followed up on much. I think maybe I should be more concerned with the basics, and making sure my own practice is in order, before involving another in it. I could be wrong though?
Interesting! I had forgotten that, and not read much at all about the “inventor” of tai chi until you mentioned his name. A few purported members of Mo Pai are mentioned in the book by Kosta, and Zhang (named as Chang Sanfeng) is listed as one of only two or three who had climbed the heights of the practice to its peak (~page 105 if you’re interested). I would be very interested to hear you expand on this part.
About 45-60 minutes. Thinking back to these experiences, it didn’t happen often, and at the time I was trying to absorb information on this subject from anywhere I could find it, which at the time was a book called Energy Work by a Robert Bruce. In that book was an exercise called something like “heart circuit psi/chi ball”, which augmented the standard horse stance by imagining a circuit with your arms (as if one was hugging a large tree) and heart comprising a circuit through which a “chi ball” flows/rotates. This, I remember, made my heart noticeably race, and for whatever reason I haven’t done that exercise since. The reason was largely the many recommendations/warnings I had seen against “skipping ahead” to higher chakras with an undeveloped LDT or root chakra...I think “kundalini sickness” was the thing being warned about. Would you agree with those warnings?
https://www.taichifuture.com/uploads/4/6/3/7/46373393/2386466.jpg?270
There is a picture of the basic stance I was in, maybe with the knees less bent.
Let me reply to the rest separately, with some links to support and refresh my memory
Thanks :)