13
posted ago by TrumpCovid ago by TrumpCovid +18 / -5

Was Hitler a bad guy?

Well, that depends on exactly how you choose to define bad.

Consider Mein Kampf, his seminal book with respect to the concepts of racial purity and the inherent superiority of one ethnicity above that of another ethnicity of humans.

It is clear from reading this book that Hitler was considerably hateful and racist in and by any measure you can reasonably choose.

Secondly , he was singularly ambitious in so far as he felt it was (more or less) his calling to lead the German/ Austrian/ Prussian people.

Thirdly, he had a particular area of focus of his hatred - generally "undesirables" and specifically "Jews" and other non-Aryan "races/ethnicities".

Common misconceptions about various social concepts, that were popular in the 1860-1940's, particularly the idea that the concepts of the scientific principle of evolution could be considered to extend into social systems, as a variant of "Social Darwinism".

The rise of national socialism in Germany/Austria is a direct result of a hard-line conservative reaction to the possible influence of communists or liberal democrats, and the huge influence of propaganda, to obtain and maintain power.

As a society, we in the west, do a serious dis-service to ourselves in labeling , Osama bin Ladin, Adolph Hitler , Mao Zedong , Al Gore or George Bush as "evil", primarily this is an infantile response which closes off further discussion or analysis and tends to remove "that person" or "persons" from further rational examination.

The movie "Downfall" gives an excellent characterization of the character of Hitler towards the end fo the war.

It is important to understand that not only was Chancellor Hitler human and reasonably intelligent, but he was personally quite charming as many contemporaries have attested to.

Prime Minister Winston Churchill himself, is quoted as having said that he was personally thankful that he never met Hitler since many of the politicians whom he admired - whom HAD met Hitler could not bring themselves to see Chancellor Hitler for the monster he was.

They universally, had profound difficulty in mentally getting their heads around the fact that the Chancellor was by most all accounts extremely charming and charismatic personally and also the fact of the aggressive international actions and later the monstrous crimes against humanity of the German administration and state apparatus.

Furthermore, we did not - in human history - until that point ever have a circumstance where a modern , democratic state had instituted a purposeful extermination program on the scale that the German Reich did.

Most other states did perform relocations or smaller-scale exterminations (Such as the military actions at Wounded Knee, or (at that time) the Armenian Christian "relocation".

The closest equivalent to the German "Racial Purity" program, was the social hygiene programs setup in the Southeastern US, whereby mentally retarded citizens were routinely chemically sterilized (from the 1910's thru the 1940's).

The US also - unfortunately has the closest historical analouge to a death camp, - that of Andersonville, during the Civil War. Andersonville was not so much an intentional death camp so much as a victim of circumstance and was certainly NOT unique to the Confederacy or the Union.

So what Churchill and Roosevelt had to contend with was the "perfect storm" of morally reprehensible policies and actions, all rolled up into a single administration.

Coupled with the historical German efficiency, this means things got REALLY bad really efficiently.

So while we (from above) KNOW that Hitler not only was charming and charismatic in person but also an amazingly compelling orator we also know from official correspondence that Hitler did in - horrible truth - have a squeamish/sensitive side.

Iris Chang's excellent book "The Rape of Nanking" describes the Japanese occuption of the Chinese city of Nanking, (lasting a little less than 7 weeks) during which time over 300,000 civilians were systematically raped and or executed.

One of the ironic (if ever the word had meaning) hero's at Nanking, was the German Ambassador , whom personally knew and appealed to Chancellor Hitler , writing impassioned letters back to Berlin, detailing the atrocities and "to please send planes and ships as possible" to help evacuate the Chinese out of the city. After several days of continuous communiques' to Hitler in Berlin. After several days, and after sending some small help, Hitler's staff wrote back asking not to send any more details as they were "emotionally disturbing the Chancellor".

So here we are, deprived of simply dismissing Hitler as evil and moving along, worse yet, we find the Chancellor had a soft-side, he was kind to his secretaries, thoughtful in correspondence, and disturbed by hearing reports about atrocities, very much along the lines of those being committed within his own concentration camps.

However, this is NOT an attempt to rehabilitate Chancellor Hitler as "not such a bad guy" after all. He was - in as much as our species has produced - a monster , but NOT a monster removed from us, but a monster very much a part of us.

Here then when we say "Hitler was evil" we purposefully blind ourselves to the more important questions, of how exactly that circumstance occurred, and the important questions which get to how do we PREVENT such atrocious policies and actions from occurring in the future.

And on this matter, the short answer is we haven't learned much at all.

Consider the militancy and hard-line rhetoric used by the very survivors (and their children) of Hitler's concentration camps.

We consider nothing less than today's headlines regarding the ethnic cleansing of central Sudan by Islamic militants , or the radicalized Taliban militia instituting fatwas that all non-Muslims must wear arm-bands identifying themselves as Hindu, Jew, Christian etc.

Consider the world reaction to the largely successful genocides of the Tutsi minority of Rwanda. (over 70% "effective" at the end of the day) in the Spring of 1994.

The open wound that is the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, where the Jewish people and Israelis in particular have conducted a "defensive" ethnic cleansing.

Above all others as much as they can be sympathized with for having endued such atrocities as those suffered under Chancellor Hitler, one of history's great ironies, is to see the same arguments of ethnic / religious destiny or superiority used by the German Regime, used by some Jewish Israeli political and military leaders today , the very descendants of the victims of that same argument targeting another group of people in sometimes exactly the same ways.

Furthermore, if we consider the course of actual dead souls the best proxy, then Hitler ranks a very strong #3, on the list of most destructive personages of the 20th century.

#1. Chairman Mao Tse Tung/Zedong, through attrition, or systematic abuse something between 14-25 million Chinese, and some suggest as many as 40 million Chinese, may have been killed in / through various programs from the early 1950's until the early 1970's.

#2. General Secretary Josef Stalin, has certainly been nearly as deliberate as Chancellor Hitler in his extermination of non-desirables (particularly Jews, Cossacks and Georgians as well as political deviants of any stripe), his nearly 30 year iron grip on the Soviet state apparatus means that through attrition, famine and suppression, no less than 10 and more likely approaching 20 million "surplus" Soviet citizens died as a result of the General Secretary's direction and policies.

Suffice it to say, the death of 8-12 million at the very least puts Hitler in the big leagues as far as numbers dead.

As far as Hitler's personal awareness - it's quite clear based on the testimony of various personal associates of the Chancellor that he was well aware of the extermination camps.

It's then fair to say that what we despise and should rightly give us concern then is not the "evil" nature some ascribe, but his complete socio-pathology, his ability to be selectively rational, sensitive, and genocidal at the same time.

Similarly we today see - or choose not to see - perhaps, that our President, has in fact set up similar conditions, where there are "secret camps" , for "undesirables", and that we the people, should simply trust that our leadership is not doing bad things behind closed doors.

Unfortunately, we know, from various reliable sources that in fact we do torture - sometimes fatally , the detainees in our custody.

The uncomfortable truth about Chancellor Hitler today, is that most Americans are perfectly comfortable with nearly ALL of the same circumstances that existed in greater Germany, and we just console ourselves (and not much of anyone else), in suggesting that we're different in kind, when in fact we are only different in degree or quantity.

Comments (25)
sorted by:
5
deleted 5 points ago +7 / -2
1
geneticMessiah 1 point ago +1 / -0

When it comes to Hitler, who lost the last big war, we shouldn't even expect to hear the truth. History is written by the victors.

4
throwawayalways 4 points ago +6 / -2

One critique: the verbiage extermination camps or death camps should not be used as separate from concentration camps. There were ghettos and then concentration camps were built to try to handle the overflow, and to direct slave labor.

3
geneticMessiah 3 points ago +3 / -0

If you know Hitler was disturbed by the atrocities committed by Japan, perhaps you should reconsider your belief in his own atrocities.

Look up the Katyn massacre. The Soviets killed tens of thousands of Poles, claimed the Nazis did it, and the US government knew the truth but reported the lie and claimed the Nazis did it. So if the holocaust was fake, it wouldn't be the first war crime falsely blamed on the Nazis.

Look up the Auschwitz chimney and gas chamber door. The chimney on the crematorium was built after the war to make the crematorium look more ominous and like it could handle burning more bodies at a faster rate than it actually could have. The door to the gas chamber was made of wood, doesn't have any seals to stop gas from escaping, and would have been easy for prisoners to break down in the amount of time it takes for the delousing agent zyklon B to kill a person. The door also opens into the chamber, making it hard to open if bodies pile up around it. So there are many details of the camps themselves that either don't fit the narrative (efficient german engineers using a wooden door on a gas chamber) or make it look fake (like building a fake chimney for appearances or re-filming the liberation of the camps months after).

I don't doubt that some political prisoners were killed intentionally or that many people ultimately died at the camps, particularly late in the war when supplies were scarce, but don't believe the official story. Ask yourself why you know specifically that 6 million jews died, but likely don't know how many gypsies died, how many gays died, how many retarded people died, how many died in the holodomor or armenian genocide or gulags or any other historical atrocity off the top of your head. How much of that 6 million figure is real and how much is propaganda by the winners of a war against the losers? And when you look at people like Anthony Weiner, Jeffrey Epstein, Clare Bronfman, and Assi Ben Mosh using child sex trafficking to blackmail our elites into doing the bidding of Israeli intelligence and jewish bankers, who do you think won the war?

3
deleted 3 points ago +7 / -4
0
TrumpCovid [S] 0 points ago +2 / -2

🙏🙏

2
turtlebam 2 points ago +3 / -1

He truly was a great man, yes he had ideas like expanding Germany at the expense of others, which can be easily read in Mein Kampf, and I am still not sure if world jewry allowed some German prosperity to prepare for the war which destroyed Germany and the world with it.

But most people forget that nationalism was a thing of that time, the drunkard Churchill was a much evil creature and as you mentioned Stalin, Mao etc... The jews wrote books on exterminating people (Kaufman's Germany must perish book comes to mind)

Also anything he had against the jews was more than justified. (In addition to what people know about them, few know they also started a guirella warefare against Germans even before he put them in prison (concentration camps))

And if anyone thinks that sterilizing rapists, pedophiles and retards is a bad idea, just look at the society we live in now!

For a better more balanced idea I recommend: The bad war, the truth never taught about WW2 by M S King

https://b-ok.cc/book/3336615/4c6138

2
fukthewef 2 points ago +2 / -0

How about Theosophy? Maybe the answer could be found there.

Also they were socialists. That’s all that needs to be said.

1
Socialismsuckz 1 point ago +1 / -0

Hitler wasn’t a Conservative. Nazis were eugenicists, they believed in abortion and did tons of scientific experiments on people on top of that he was into the occult and didn’t like churches. Economically speaking they had more social programs the we do in the USA now. Something conservatives would abhor. Much closer to liberals.... ask anyone over 70 if Hitler was a conservative they will laugh at you. Even economically he wasn’t. Why do people believe this these days? It’s very odd.

0
DefaultFreedom 0 points ago +2 / -2

Truth is always somewhere in the middle. Not usually exactly in the middle, but somewhere between true and false when it comes to studying judgements of people and history.

1
TheOxOnRocks 1 point ago +1 / -0

“Deep analysis”… seems we got the attention of some shills.

1
DefaultFreedom 1 point ago +1 / -0

What's your take?

4
TheOxOnRocks 4 points ago +4 / -0

Germany had problems due to the "jews". If you read our listen to hitlers book. Allot of the things he complains about are very similar to our own problems. Jews were promoting sexual deviance, selling sex in art and photos. The term lgb literally came from a book by German jew in the 30s..the book promoted pedophilia like our drag queen Story time.. It really makes you wonder what books they actually burned.. Hitler helped establish the Israel state, he got the ball rolling, offered jews a different place to live and offered to send what wealth they had with them.. He let loyal German jews serve in his military. Some jews were his most decorated/high ranking soldiers.. There is a lot more to learn, but i say Hitler was probably an "ok" guy who had some bad people in his administration (look at our own deep state..) he definitely claimed superiority as a race in his book, but Germany was like the last country to declare it in Europe at that time, so.. If you want to go more into it, check out the movie. The greatest story never told.

1
Rizzo2049 1 point ago +1 / -0

he was a rothschild agent who, to his credit, tried to double cross them with help from the non-revolutionary elements of europe and russia.

2
TheOxOnRocks 2 points ago +2 / -0

I’d say he never intended to be an agent, but in the end they got the better of him through their scheming.. he took their help to try and get ahead, they gave help for some deal exchanges. Example - Roth’s: help us set up an Israel state. Hitler: ok, take all of the German hating Jews with you. Hitler: goes to iran(?) and tells the Arabs, don’t trust these Jews, get rid of them… Roth’s: England, America destroy Germany!… they used each other, but only Zionist/Israel is getting away with, “we’re a sovereign people/nation” today…

1
Rizzo2049 1 point ago +1 / -0

could be, I don't know how we would find out either way, although I do believe a large faction of the NSDAP and military escaped to somewhere...

1
TheOxOnRocks 1 point ago +1 / -0

Also about the books, Hitler was catholic. He ran on a Christian platform.. Do you really think he got a bunch of his followers to burn Christian Bibles...? I mean try to picture it today, a candidate runs on a Christian platform. Would he be able to get his Christian base to start burning Christian bibles? No way.. Drag queen books for kids on the other hand... Burn away. Just compare that to some of the other stories that came out. Like - Hitler was turning jews into soap bars.. Or he was shrinking their skulls in medical expirements(the Americans got some little skulls from tribes in Africa.. Black magic stuff or something.. They showed then on American television..)

0
GuyWhite 0 points ago +1 / -1

TL;DR

Völkisch movement. I am Völkisch

0
SR-71A_Blackbird 0 points ago +1 / -1

The gay Catholic socialist destroys the nation that gave birth to the Reformation, and gives half of Europe to the communists, and you conclude that he was a nationalist. You are retarded.

-1
HIGH_ENERGY_MEMES -1 points ago +3 / -4

He lead a machine that systematically killed millions of people in an attempt at genocide and other persecution. Also invaded peaceful countries around him killing millions more.

You can say he was a great orator, kind to his secretaries etc, but trying to equate that to anything that overcomes his incredible evil is ridiculous.

I do agree with people are comfortable with too many abuses today, and it shows you how something like the NAZI party came to exist. The line between a compassionate society and a fucked up regime like Hitler/Stalin/Mao is finer than we give credit for so lets not try to position Hitler as anything but one of the greatest evils in human history. And if anyone that tries to justify mass killing people for 'the greater good' is pure evil no matter the cause.

3
deleted 3 points ago +6 / -3
1
geneticMessiah 1 point ago +1 / -0

Peaceful? Poland was killing people of German heritage for wanting Danzig returned to Germany. Hitler invaded because Germans were being killed.

Compare Hitler invading countries that held land and people that used to belong to Germany to the USSR invading Poland and Finland at the same time as Germany, not giving back any of what they took after the war, and having an ideology of world domination rather than of national sovereignty. Then compare both to France and Britain colonizing half the fucking world between them. Who was the real military imperialist?

1
HIGH_ENERGY_MEMES 1 point ago +1 / -0

You seem to have forgotten the key variable of death camps and genocide.

Oh and Germany didn't intent to give land back either, they did something called 'lose the war'.

1
geneticMessiah 1 point ago +1 / -0

If you believe the holocaust myth, you haven't looked into it.