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8
Do you (U/ghost_of_aswartz) still believe we went to the Moon? (www.youtube.com)
posted 4 years ago by Usernames1 4 years ago by Usernames1 +10 / -2
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– sgtnoodle 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0

If you move the fishbowl in a circular motion with a period of 24 hours, then the fish won't even be able to perceive the motion, even if the radius of the circle is thousands of miles. If you whip it around in a tight loop, then the water will become turbulent and the fish will get knocked around.

If there's a current, the fish will move with it. Depending on its swimming ability, it will be able to swim against some amount of current. What analogy are you trying to make? Is it a controversial idea that a fish can swim?

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– deleted 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0
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– sgtnoodle 1 point 4 years ago +1 / -0

I'm not trying to make a point that the air carries objects along with it, even though that's generally true. I'm saying that the air, objects that happen to be in the air, and the ground the air is above are all rotating at effectively the same speed and direction, and gravity keeps everything curving back toward the ground, and so there's no constant energy required to keep from falling off the earth.

The air is rotating with the Earth too, and there's no reason for it not to on average because it's the lowest energy state.

Speed is always relative to another reference frame. If you're riding in an airplane and eating a peanut, you could say the peanut is going 400mph and it would be true relative to the ground, but it's not going 400mph relative to your mouth. Relative to the surrounding air, maybe it's going 380mph if there's a 20mph tailwind. Relative to the sun, the peanut is probably going a bajillion mph. The only energy/power required is for the plane to overcome the aerodynamic drag from moving relative to the air, and the constant 9.8m/s^2 acceleration upward to counteract gravity.

Said another way, there's no energy required to maintain a constant rate of rotation for matter that's held together by natural forces in a closed system, only momentum. The Earth overall is largely a closed system, as it is moving though a vacuum. Over cosmic time scales, though, the Earth does lose momentum because it's not a perfectly closed system. Days are becoming slightly longer from year to year. Some of that is due to tidal forces with the moon, for example.

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– Graphenium -1 points 4 years ago +2 / -3

then a much more time and energy would be required to fly against it

Two considerations to add to this:

  • most planes ascend to 20-30,000 feet in order to minimize the drag of the atmosphere

  • “jet streams” and similar phenomena can go counter to the earths rotation. The atmosphere is a highly “chaotic” system and things are moving in all directions at once, it’s just the average or prevailing movement that follows the rotation, theoretically:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks

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– deleted 2 points 4 years ago +2 / -0
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– Graphenium -2 points 4 years ago +1 / -3

You got me thinking quite hard with this, I think this is on the right track:

Imagine a sealed tube travelling on the ground, with you inside it, the whole set up going 50 mph west.

If you jumped while standing in the tube, it wouldn’t travel underneath you (50mph * 2 second hang time), you and the air in the tube and the tube itself are all moving the same velocity in the same direction, so when you jump you come down in the same (relative) spot in the tube.

Likewise, if you decided to walk from west to east inside this tube, you would not need to overcome a countering westward force (the tubes westward 50mph velocity), for the same reason. The air in the tube is already a part of the closed system of the tube, it isn’t an “extra” force you have to overcome because you are already in equilibrium with it by virtue of being inside the tube.

Then you apply this metaphor to the earth herself. The atmosphere is the air in the tube, and the tube is the (relatively) closed system known as “earth + atmosphere”. Any part of that seem off to you?

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