Yes, I understand that. This is why I always ask people why they believe in FE or any other "adjacent" thing. It is also why I will watch the various "influencers" to see their arguments. There was a time I would have by default believed in global warming, the holocaust, and that Hitler was a really bad guy. I changed my views on all of these things because people made factual arguments that forced me to change.

I guess what I'm saying is FE and other similar things about the shape of the earth are perpetually in this state of "this is the biggest lie of all but you gotta watch out for all the obvious disinfo trying to make us look stupid." I would be sympathetic to that if I was then directed to the person / people who had the really good arguments. But after years of every big name in this space eventually being turned into a shill, I have to assume that there is no "Stephen McIntyre" or "Germar Rudolf" in this space.

I will also acknowledge that it is possible that NASA lies, even about the moon landing, while the earth is in fact as described in geodesy books. I personally am not big into NASA conspiracies, but those are a lot more believable. For the shape of the earth to be substantially wrong, enormous sectors of society would have to be in on the conspiracy. Military, transportation, various branches of science, cartography, the navigation apps on your phone. It is an extraordinary claim, and at a minimum the people who claim this need to provide a workable map and a rough explanation for basic solar system observations (day, night, moon cycles, seasons, tides, apparent planet paths, etc.).

Yes, I understand that. This is why I always ask people why they believe in FE or any other "adjacent" thing. It is also why I will watch the various "influencers" to see their arguments. There was a time I would have by default believed in global warming, the holocaust, and that Hitler was a really bad guy. I changed my views on all of these things because people made factual arguments that forced me to change.

I guess what I'm saying is FE and other similar things about the shape of the earth are perpetually in this state of "this is the biggest lie of all but you gotta watch out for all the obvious disinfo trying to make us look stupid." I would be sympathetic to that if I was then directed to the person / people who had the really good arguments. But after years of every big name in this space eventually being turned into a shill, I have to assume that there is no "Stephen McIntyre" or "Germar Rudolf" in this space.

I will also acknowledge that it is possible that NASA lies, even about the moon landing, even if the earth is in fact as described in geodesy books. I personally am not big into NASA conspiracies, but those are a lot more believable. For the shape of the earth to be substantially wrong, enormous sectors of society would have to be in on the conspiracy. Military, transportation, various branches of science, cartography, the navigation apps on your phone. It is an extraordinary claim, and at a minimum the people who claim this need to provide a workable map and a rough explanation for basic solar system observations (day, night, moon cycles, seasons, tides, apparent planet paths, etc.).