I was thinking about this today, and even if one were to build such a perfect machine and run it on a windless day, when the copter started to drift westwards it would then be in a relative wind and so come to a stop eventually unless a horizontal thrust was applied.

As to your copter in Florida, these "hovering arguments" are always relying on a naive picture. Aircraft are built for the air, so their performance is relative to what the air is doing. In the globe model, the earth has a 4000 mile radius and rotates once every 24 hours. This does imply, as anti globes always dismiss as ridiculous, that at the equator the earth is moving a bit more than 1000 mph. In Florida, it would be more like 850 mph or so because it is at about 30 degrees of latitude. When the helicopter is on the ground, it is moving the same speed. Also, all the air is moving on average that speed, and what we call "wind" is really any difference between the air speed and the ground speed.

So the globe model would be that when the helicopter takes off into "hover," it is moving eastward at the local ambient ~850 mph and it lifts into air also moving on average that speed except for whatever breeze there might be. If the helicopter actually were to hover so that it would be stationary according to a non rotating earth, this would involve flying west through the air at over 800 miles per hour, which is clearly impossible.

Why would the spin... as you state?

In the thought experiment I said before, the rising object at tropical and lower mid latitudes would be pushed west for the same reason that someone who tries to walk from the interior to the perimeter of a running merry-go-round is "pushed backwards." In order to rotate once per 24 hours when you are a mile up in the sky, you need to be moving a little faster. If you do not push yourself faster, it will appear on the ground like you were "pushed backwards" which on earth is west.

A helium balloon isn't affected by its spin...it just floots up

As I said, at the equator, where the up/down-east/west Coriolis is maximum, it would be about a quarter mph for rising a mile. First of all, at a mile up you would not be able to resolve this drift in the balloon, especially when it is masked by random winds. On top of that, even if we could stop all wind and measure the balloon precisely with a telescope, the effect would die out quickly, because once the balloon is "pushed west" (to the person on the ground it appears this way), then the balloon is in a relative wind. We said there is no wind in this experiment, so if the balloon is moving west it experiences drag and so "slows down" (this "slowing down" as it appears to the person on the ground is really a "speeding up" eastward).

planes traveling east to west and vice versa should have way different times

Again, this is the naive view. The plane is a machine that flies in the air. The globe model is a rotating earth with an atmosphere that is on average rotating with it, and "wind" is a difference between air speed and ground speed. You may find it counterintuitive, you may choose to reject it, that's fine. But standard Newtonian mechanics says that if the ground is moving from Los Angeles to Atlanta at about 850 mph, then the air above it more or less is too. A plane on the runway waiting to take off is moving that same speed. When it does take off, it does so into this "moving air" and that is what it flies in. So if there is no wind, the flight time is about the same in both directions. If there is significant wind, then one way is a bit faster than the other (the one with a "tail wind.")

I was thinking about this today, and even if one were to build such a perfect machine and run it on a windless day, when the copter started to drift westwards it would then be in a relative wind and so come to a stop eventually unless a horizontal thrust was applied.

As to your copter in Florida, these "hovering arguments" are always relying on a naive picture. Aircraft are built for the air, so their performance is relative to what the air is doing. In the globe model, the earth has a 4000 mile radius and rotates once every 24 hours. This does imply, as anti globes always dismiss as ridiculous, that at the equator the earth is moving a bit more than 1000 mph. In Florida, it would be more like 850 mph or so because it is at about 30 degrees of latitude. When the helicopter is on the ground, it is moving the same speed. Also, all the air is moving on average that speed, and what we call "wind" is really any difference between the air speed and the ground speed.

So the globe model would be that when the helicopter takes off into "hover," it is moving eastward at the local ambient ~850 mph and it lifts into air also moving on average that speed except for whatever breeze there might be. If the helicopter actually were to hover so that it would be stationary according to a non rotating earth, this would involve flying west through the air at over 800 miles per hour, which is clearly impossible.

Why would the spin... as you state?

In the thought experiment I said before, the rising object at tropical and lower mid latitudes would be pushed west for the same reason that someone who tries to walk from the interior to the perimeter of a running merry-go-round is "pushed backwards." In order to rotate once per 24 hours when you are a mile up in the sky, you need to be moving a little faster. If you do not push yourself faster, it will appear on the ground like you were "pushed backwards" which on earth is west.

A helium balloon isn't affected by its spin...it just floots up

As I said, at the equator, where the up/down-east/west Coriolis is maximum, it would be about a quarter mph for rising a mile. First of all, at a mile up you would not be able to resolve this drift in the balloon, especially when it is masked by random winds. On top of that, even if we could stop all wind and measure the balloon precisely with a telescope, the effect would die out quickly, because once the balloon is "pushed west" (to the person on the ground it appears this way), then the balloon is in a relative wind. We said there is no wind in this experiment, so if the balloon is moving west it experiences drag and so "slows down" (this "slowing down" as it appears to the person on the ground is really a "speeding up" eastward).

planes traveling east to west and vice versa should have way different times

Again, this is the naive view. The plane a machine that flies in the air. The globe model is a rotating earth with an atmosphere that is on average rotating with it, and "wind" is a difference between air speed and ground speed. You may find it counterintuitive, you may choose to reject it, that's fine. But standard Newtonian mechanics says that if the ground is moving from Los Angeles to Atlanta at about 850 mph, then the air above it more or less is too. A plane on the runway waiting to take off is moving that same speed. When it does take off, it does so into this "moving air" and that is what it flies in. So if there is no wind, the flight time is about the same in both directions. If there is significant wind, then one way is a bit faster than the other (the one with a "tail wind.")

I was thinking about this today, and even if one were to build such a perfect machine and run it on a windless day, when the copter started to drift westwards it would then be in a relative wind and so come to a stop eventually unless a horizontal thrust was applied.

As to your copter in Florida, these "hovering arguments" are always relying on a naive picture. Aircraft are built for the air, so their performance is relative to what the air is doing. In the globe model, the earth has a 4000 mile radius and rotates once every 24 hours. This does imply, as anti globes always dismiss as ridiculous, that at the equator the earth is moving a bit more than 1000 mph. In Florida, it would be more like 850 mph or so because it is at about 30 degrees of latitude. When the helicopter is on the ground, it is moving the same speed. Also, all the air is moving on average that speed, and what we call "wind" is really any difference between the air speed and the ground speed.

So the globe model would be that when the helicopter takes off into "hover," it is moving eastward at the local ambient ~850 mph and it lifts into air also moving on average that speed except for whatever breeze there might be. If the helicopter actually were to hover so that it would be stationary according to a non rotating earth, this would involve flying west through the air at over 800 miles per hour, which is clearly impossible.

Why would the spin... as you state?

In the thought experiment I said before, the rising object at tropical and lower mid latitudes would be pushed west for the same reason that someone who tries to walk from the interior to the perimeter of a running merry-go-round is "pushed backwards." In order to rotate once per 24 hours when you are a mile up in the sky, you need to be moving a little faster. If you do not push yourself faster, it will appear on the ground like you were "pushed backwards" which on earth is west.

A helium balloon isn't affected by its spin...it just floots up

As I said, at the equator, where the up/down-east/west Coriolis is maximum, it would be about a quarter mph for rising a mile. First of all, at a mile you would not be able to notice this drift in the balloon, especially when it is masked by random winds. On top of that, even if we could stop all wind and measure the balloon precisely with a telescope, the effect would die out quickly, because once the balloon is "pushed west" (to the person on the ground it appears this way), then the balloon is in a relative wind. We said there is no wind in this experiment, so if the balloon is moving west it experiences drag and so "slows down" (this "slowing down" as it appears to the person on the ground is really a "speeding up" eastward).

planes traveling east to west and vice versa should have way different times

Again, this is the naive view. The plane a machine that flies in the air. The globe model is a rotating earth with an atmosphere that is on average rotating with it, and "wind" is a difference between air speed and ground speed. You may find it counterintuitive, you may choose to reject it, that's fine. But standard Newtonian mechanics says that if the ground is moving from Los Angeles to Atlanta at about 850 mph, then the air above it more or less is too. A plane on the runway waiting to take off is moving that same speed. When it does take off, it does so into this "moving air" and that is what it flies in. So if there is no wind, the flight time is about the same in both directions. If there is significant wind, then one way is a bit faster than the other (the one with a "tail wind.")

I was thinking about this today, and even if one were to build such a perfect machine and run it on a windless day, when the copter started to drift westwards it would then be in a relative wind and so come to a stop eventually unless a horizontal thrust was applied.

As to your copter in Florida, these "hovering arguments" are always relying on a naive picture. Aircraft are built for the air, so their performance is relative to what the air is doing. In the globe model, the earth has a 4000 mile radius and rotates once every 24 hours. This does imply, as anti globes always dismiss as ridiculous, that at the equator the earth is moving a bit more than 1000 mph. In Florida, it would be more like 850 mph or so because it is at about 30 degrees of latitude. When the helicopter is on the ground, it is moving the same speed. Also, all the air is moving on average that speed, and what we call "wind" is really any difference between the air speed and the ground speed.

So the globe model would be that when the helicopter takes off into "hover," it is moving eastward at the local ambient ~850 mph and it lifts into air also moving on average that speed except for whatever breeze there might be. If the helicopter actually were to hover so that it would be stationary according to a non rotating earth, this would involve flying west through the air at over 800 miles per hour, which is clearly impossible.

Why would the spin... as you state?

In the thought experiment I said before, the rising object at tropical and lower mid latitudes would be pushed west for the same reason that someone who tries to walk from the interior to the perimeter of a running merry-go-round is "pushed backwards." In order to spin "once per 24 hours" when you are a mile up in the sky, you need to be moving a little faster. If you do not push yourself faster, it will appear on the ground like you were "pushed backwards" which on earth is west.

A helium balloon isn't affected by its spin...it just floots up

As I said, at the equator, where the up/down-east/west Coriolis is maximum, it would be about a quarter mph for rising a mile. First of all, at a mile you would not be able to notice this drift in the balloon, especially when it is masked by random winds. On top of that, even if we could stop all wind and measure the balloon precisely with a telescope, the effect would die out quickly, because once the balloon is "pushed west" (to the person on the ground it appears this way), then the balloon is in a relative wind. We said there is no wind in this experiment, so if the balloon is moving west it experiences drag and so "slows down" (this "slowing down" as it appears to the person on the ground is really a "speeding up" eastward).

planes traveling east to west and vice versa should have way different times

Again, this is the naive view. The plane a machine that flies in the air. The globe model is a rotating earth with an atmosphere that is on average rotating with it, and "wind" is a difference between air speed and ground speed. You may find it counterintuitive, you may choose to reject it, that's fine. But standard Newtonian mechanics says that if the ground is moving from Los Angeles to Atlanta at about 850 mph, then the air above it more or less is too. A plane on the runway waiting to take off is moving that same speed. When it does take off, it does so into this "moving air" and that is what it flies in. So if there is no wind, the flight time is about the same in both directions. If there is significant wind, then one way is a bit faster than the other (the one with a "tail wind.")