[part 7]
building the third temple.. seems like this gold dome muslim place is in the same area. I thought.. maybe you can just build this third temple, like the outer walls, the gold dome place could be "in there", within the third temple.. would that be "ok"?
That is a question that goes to the heart of one of the most complex and sensitive geopolitical and religious issues in the world.
The area you are referring to is known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary). It is the holiest site in Judaism (the location of the First and Second Jewish Temples) and the third holiest site in Islam (home to the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque).
The simple answer to whether building the Third Temple's outer walls around the Dome of the Rock would be "okay" is no, under the current situation and the deeply held beliefs and historical narratives of both Jews and Muslims.
Here is a breakdown of why this is such a sensitive topic:
The Location: Many believe the Dome of the Rock is built over or very near the exact spot where the Holy of Holies (the innermost sanctuary of the Jewish Temples) once stood. The idea of the Third Temple is that it should be built in that same sacred location.
Religious Significance of the Dome of the Rock: The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine built in the late 7th century, making it one of the oldest extant Islamic structures. It enshrines the Foundation Stone, which is incredibly significant in both Judaism (as the traditional location of the Holy of Holies and the Binding of Isaac) and Islam (as the spot where the Prophet Muhammad is believed to have ascended to heaven on his Night Journey). Moving, altering, or enclosing it would be seen by Muslims worldwide as an unforgivable sacrilege and an act of war.
The Status Quo: The site is currently administered by a Muslim religious trust (the Waqf) under the custodianship of Jordan, while Israel maintains overall security control. This arrangement, known as the "Status Quo," generally prohibits non-Muslim prayer on the Mount and aims to preserve the existing structures. Any significant change—such as building new structures, even outer walls—would be considered a violation of the Status Quo and would almost certainly ignite widespread conflict.
In short, the two structures—the hypothetical Third Temple and the existing Dome of the Rock—are viewed by their respective adherents as needing to occupy or dominate the same central, sacred space. Because of the deep religious convictions and history tied to the location, the proposed compromise of "building around it" would not resolve the fundamental clash of claims and would likely be viewed as an attempt to diminish the Islamic site.
maybe you can just set off a nuke and blow up both these areas.. would that resolve something?
A nuclear detonation on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, even a small one, would not resolve the underlying conflicts; instead, it would instantly escalate them into a catastrophe with unimaginable political, religious, and humanitarian consequences.
Here is why that scenario would be devastating:
Massive Loss of Life and Widespread Contamination: The site is in the middle of a densely populated city. A nuclear explosion would result in the immediate death of tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians. The resulting blast, heat, and radiation would destroy much of the Old City of Jerusalem, one of the most historically and religiously significant places on Earth. The radioactive fallout would render the entire area, including surrounding residential neighborhoods, uninhabitable for an extended period.
Global Religious War: The site is the single holiest place in Judaism (Temple Mount) and the third-holiest site in Islam (Haram al-Sharif, home to the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque). Its deliberate destruction would be universally viewed by Muslims and many Christians as a profound, irreparable act of sacrilege. It would not only shatter any hope for peace but would likely ignite a global religious and political conflict with no foreseeable end.
Political and Diplomatic Isolation: The use of a nuclear weapon, especially on a religious site in a major city, is a violation of international norms and laws that would unite the entire world—including all major powers and international organizations—in condemnation. Any entity responsible would be isolated and face massive international retaliation.
Creating a Void, Not Peace: The goal of building the Third Temple is tied to a belief in future redemption and a place for Divine presence. Blowing up the site would not clear the way for its construction; it would turn the holiest spot into a radioactive crater, making it impossible for anyone to pray, build, or visit, thus creating a devastating void rather than resolving the core issue.
In short, using a weapon of mass destruction on this site would not bring a solution; it would be the start of a far greater, more destructive conflict. The political and spiritual issues would remain, but the human cost would be immeasurable.
how come these gold dome guys are so into that spot?
The "gold dome" you're referring to is the Dome of the Rock, and the entire compound, which also includes the Al-Aqsa Mosque, is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary).
The area is one of the most revered places in the entire Islamic faith—it is considered the third holiest site in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.
Here are the main reasons why it is so significant to Muslims:
The Night Journey and Ascension (Al-Isra wal-Mi'raj): This is the most crucial connection. Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet Muhammad traveled miraculously in a single night from Mecca to the "Farthest Mosque" (Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem. From the rock underneath the Dome of the Rock, he is believed to have then ascended into Heaven to meet God and receive the commandment for Muslims to perform the five daily prayers.
The First Qibla: The site was the original direction of prayer (Qibla) for Muslims for a time before it was changed to the Kaaba in Mecca. This historical role reinforces its foundational importance in the faith.
Connection to Earlier Prophets: Islam shares a belief in the earlier prophets of Judaism and Christianity, such as Abraham, Moses, and Solomon, all of whom are also revered in Islam. Muslim tradition links the sacred rock (known as the Foundation Stone in Judaism) to the creation of the world and other events involving these prophets, establishing its ancient spiritual significance within the Abrahamic lineage.
Architectural and Historical Heritage: The Dome of the Rock itself is one of the oldest surviving buildings of Islamic architecture, completed in 691 CE. Its magnificent structure is a powerful, centuries-old symbol of Islamic presence, history, and identity in Jerusalem.
In summary, the compound is central to the Muslim faith because it marks the miraculous culmination of the Prophet Muhammad's journey, making it a sacred point where the earthly and divine worlds connected.
what's up with this fuckin rock down there?
That "rock" is arguably the single most sacred and contentious piece of real estate in the world. It is the natural bedrock visible inside the Dome of the Rock shrine, and its significance goes back thousands of years, as it's holy to all three major Abrahamic religions.
For Judaism, it is known as the Foundation Stone (Even ha-Shetiyah):
Creation of the World: Traditional Jewish sources believe this rock is the spot from which God began the creation of the world, making it the very first piece of land to emerge from the primordial waters. It is considered the "navel of the world."
The Temples: It is believed to be the spot where the Holy of Holies—the most sacred inner sanctuary of both the First and Second Jewish Temples—was located. The Ark of the Covenant rested here in the First Temple.
Binding of Isaac: Many traditions identify the rock as the location on Mount Moriah where Abraham was told to sacrifice his son Isaac (known as the Binding of Isaac, or Akedah).
For Islam, it is known as the Noble Rock (al-Sakhrah al-Musharrafah):
The Ascension: As mentioned before, this is the point from which the Prophet Muhammad is believed to have miraculously ascended to heaven during the Night Journey (Mi'raj).
Continuity: It links Islam to the earlier prophets, like Abraham and Solomon, whom Muslims also revere.
Its history as the center of the Jewish Temples (the holiest site in Judaism) and its later adoption as the departure point for Muhammad's Ascension (the third holiest site in Islam) is what makes it such a flashpoint of religious and political tension today.
so this third temple shit.. they don't get into it how there's this fuckin gold dome there, that they gotta like what do they say about it? They gotta get it out?
That's exactly the heart of the conflict. You're right to point out the huge obstacle the Dome of the Rock and the adjacent Al-Aqsa Mosque present.
The people who advocate for rebuilding the Jewish Third Temple have to address the fact that the golden dome sits right on top of what they believe is the exact spot for the Holy of Holies—the most sacred point where the Temple needs to stand.
Here are the main ways different groups who want the Third Temple built deal with the Dome of the Rock:
- The Divine/Messianic Approach (Mainstream Orthodox View) For most Orthodox Jews, this is not a practical problem for humans to solve. They believe the Temple will be rebuilt through:
The Messiah: The Jewish Messiah will arrive and miraculously oversee the reconstruction of the Temple, and it will be built at that time.
Divine Intervention: Some traditions suggest the Temple will descend from heaven, already built, and God will somehow clear the site.
God's Will: Essentially, a major global and supernatural event will occur that resolves the issue of the existing structures without human hands having to tear them down. This view is the most widely accepted because it respects the current status quo and avoids provoking a global war.
- The Architectural Compromise (Minority View) A few scholars and activist groups have tried to argue that the Dome of the Rock is not on the exact spot of the Holy of Holies. Their proposals include:
Building Next to It: They suggest the Temple could be built on the open space just to the north of the Dome of the Rock, allowing the two structures to exist side-by-side. However, most historians and archaeologists believe the Dome of the Rock is indeed directly over the Foundation Stone, which was the core of the ancient Temples.
- The Direct Removal (Extremist/Activist View) This view is held by a minority of far-right and activist groups, such as the Temple Institute or the Temple Mount Faithful, but they are very vocal and their actions often fuel the controversy.
Active Destruction/Removal: These groups openly state that for the Third Temple to be built, the Dome of the Rock (and the Al-Aqsa Mosque) would have to be removed—either by being peacefully disassembled and rebuilt elsewhere, or, in more extreme imaginations, being destroyed. Their rationale is that the commandment to build the Temple is paramount, and the Muslim structures are an occupation on the holiest site in Judaism.
In practice, the Israeli government strictly maintains the "status quo" on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, which means that the Muslim administration (the Waqf) controls the site and that no Jewish prayer or construction is allowed there. Any attempt to alter or damage the Dome of the Rock would be considered an act of war and would have catastrophic international consequences.
well this is what I'm saying is.. build the third temple and leave the gold dome in there.. but you said "no", earlier
That's an insightful question about whether the Dome of the Rock could be left in place while the Third Temple is built.
To be clear, when I mentioned the options earlier, the "no" wasn't from me saying it's impossible, but rather from the widespread rejection of that idea by both the Jewish activists and the religious establishment, for different reasons:
Religious/Archaeological Conflict (Why Activists Say No):
The problem is that the rock under the Dome of the Rock is believed by many to be the Foundation Stone (Even ha-Shetiyah), the exact spot where the Holy of Holies in the Jewish Temple was located.
The Holy of Holies was the epicenter of the ancient Temple and must be the center of the Third Temple.
Therefore, if the Dome of the Rock is directly on top of the Holy of Holies, the Temple cannot be built properly unless the Dome is removed. For those determined to build the Temple, leaving the Dome in place would mean the Temple is fundamentally incomplete or wrongly situated.
The "Next to It" Argument (The Compromise):
Some less-extreme views suggest the Temple's Holy of Holies was not under the Dome, but slightly to the north or south.
If this is true, then theoretically, a Third Temple could be built right next to the Dome of the Rock.
However, even this architectural compromise is rejected by the Muslim authorities who control the site (the Waqf). They would view any new Jewish structure on the plateau as a violation of the status quo and an unacceptable attempt to claim the space. It would still trigger massive conflict.
So, while the idea of a "side-by-side" existence is a theoretical compromise, in the real world, the most ardent Temple advocates say no because it violates the correct location, and the Muslim authorities say no because it violates their sovereignty over the entire sanctuary.
[continued in part 8]
[part 7]
building the third temple.. seems like this gold dome muslim place is in the same area. I thought.. maybe you can just build this third temple, like the outer walls, the gold dome place could be "in there", within the third temple.. would that be "ok"?
That is a question that goes to the heart of one of the most complex and sensitive geopolitical and religious issues in the world.
The area you are referring to is known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary). It is the holiest site in Judaism (the location of the First and Second Jewish Temples) and the third holiest site in Islam (home to the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque).
The simple answer to whether building the Third Temple's outer walls around the Dome of the Rock would be "okay" is no, under the current situation and the deeply held beliefs and historical narratives of both Jews and Muslims.
Here is a breakdown of why this is such a sensitive topic:
The Location: Many believe the Dome of the Rock is built over or very near the exact spot where the Holy of Holies (the innermost sanctuary of the Jewish Temples) once stood. The idea of the Third Temple is that it should be built in that same sacred location.
Religious Significance of the Dome of the Rock: The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine built in the late 7th century, making it one of the oldest extant Islamic structures. It enshrines the Foundation Stone, which is incredibly significant in both Judaism (as the traditional location of the Holy of Holies and the Binding of Isaac) and Islam (as the spot where the Prophet Muhammad is believed to have ascended to heaven on his Night Journey). Moving, altering, or enclosing it would be seen by Muslims worldwide as an unforgivable sacrilege and an act of war.
The Status Quo: The site is currently administered by a Muslim religious trust (the Waqf) under the custodianship of Jordan, while Israel maintains overall security control. This arrangement, known as the "Status Quo," generally prohibits non-Muslim prayer on the Mount and aims to preserve the existing structures. Any significant change—such as building new structures, even outer walls—would be considered a violation of the Status Quo and would almost certainly ignite widespread conflict.
In short, the two structures—the hypothetical Third Temple and the existing Dome of the Rock—are viewed by their respective adherents as needing to occupy or dominate the same central, sacred space. Because of the deep religious convictions and history tied to the location, the proposed compromise of "building around it" would not resolve the fundamental clash of claims and would likely be viewed as an attempt to diminish the Islamic site.
maybe you can just set off a nuke and blow up both these areas.. would that resolve something?
A nuclear detonation on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, even a small one, would not resolve the underlying conflicts; instead, it would instantly escalate them into a catastrophe with unimaginable political, religious, and humanitarian consequences.
Here is why that scenario would be devastating:
Massive Loss of Life and Widespread Contamination: The site is in the middle of a densely populated city. A nuclear explosion would result in the immediate death of tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians. The resulting blast, heat, and radiation would destroy much of the Old City of Jerusalem, one of the most historically and religiously significant places on Earth. The radioactive fallout would render the entire area, including surrounding residential neighborhoods, uninhabitable for an extended period.
Global Religious War: The site is the single holiest place in Judaism (Temple Mount) and the third-holiest site in Islam (Haram al-Sharif, home to the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque). Its deliberate destruction would be universally viewed by Muslims and many Christians as a profound, irreparable act of sacrilege. It would not only shatter any hope for peace but would likely ignite a global religious and political conflict with no foreseeable end.
Political and Diplomatic Isolation: The use of a nuclear weapon, especially on a religious site in a major city, is a violation of international norms and laws that would unite the entire world—including all major powers and international organizations—in condemnation. Any entity responsible would be isolated and face massive international retaliation.
Creating a Void, Not Peace: The goal of building the Third Temple is tied to a belief in future redemption and a place for Divine presence. Blowing up the site would not clear the way for its construction; it would turn the holiest spot into a radioactive crater, making it impossible for anyone to pray, build, or visit, thus creating a devastating void rather than resolving the core issue.
In short, using a weapon of mass destruction on this site would not bring a solution; it would be the start of a far greater, more destructive conflict. The political and spiritual issues would remain, but the human cost would be immeasurable.
how come these gold dome guys are so into that spot?
The "gold dome" you're referring to is the Dome of the Rock, and the entire compound, which also includes the Al-Aqsa Mosque, is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary).
The area is one of the most revered places in the entire Islamic faith—it is considered the third holiest site in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.
Here are the main reasons why it is so significant to Muslims:
The Night Journey and Ascension (Al-Isra wal-Mi'raj): This is the most crucial connection. Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet Muhammad traveled miraculously in a single night from Mecca to the "Farthest Mosque" (Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem. From the rock underneath the Dome of the Rock, he is believed to have then ascended into Heaven to meet God and receive the commandment for Muslims to perform the five daily prayers.
The First Qibla: The site was the original direction of prayer (Qibla) for Muslims for a time before it was changed to the Kaaba in Mecca. This historical role reinforces its foundational importance in the faith.
Connection to Earlier Prophets: Islam shares a belief in the earlier prophets of Judaism and Christianity, such as Abraham, Moses, and Solomon, all of whom are also revered in Islam. Muslim tradition links the sacred rock (known as the Foundation Stone in Judaism) to the creation of the world and other events involving these prophets, establishing its ancient spiritual significance within the Abrahamic lineage.
Architectural and Historical Heritage: The Dome of the Rock itself is one of the oldest surviving buildings of Islamic architecture, completed in 691 CE. Its magnificent structure is a powerful, centuries-old symbol of Islamic presence, history, and identity in Jerusalem.
In summary, the compound is central to the Muslim faith because it marks the miraculous culmination of the Prophet Muhammad's journey, making it a sacred point where the earthly and divine worlds connected.
what's up with this fuckin rock down there?
That "rock" is arguably the single most sacred and contentious piece of real estate in the world. It is the natural bedrock visible inside the Dome of the Rock shrine, and its significance goes back thousands of years, as it's holy to all three major Abrahamic religions.
For Judaism, it is known as the Foundation Stone (Even ha-Shetiyah):
Creation of the World: Traditional Jewish sources believe this rock is the spot from which God began the creation of the world, making it the very first piece of land to emerge from the primordial waters. It is considered the "navel of the world."
The Temples: It is believed to be the spot where the Holy of Holies—the most sacred inner sanctuary of both the First and Second Jewish Temples—was located. The Ark of the Covenant rested here in the First Temple.
Binding of Isaac: Many traditions identify the rock as the location on Mount Moriah where Abraham was told to sacrifice his son Isaac (known as the Binding of Isaac, or Akedah).
For Islam, it is known as the Noble Rock (al-Sakhrah al-Musharrafah):
The Ascension: As mentioned before, this is the point from which the Prophet Muhammad is believed to have miraculously ascended to heaven during the Night Journey (Mi'raj).
Continuity: It links Islam to the earlier prophets, like Abraham and Solomon, whom Muslims also revere.
Its history as the center of the Jewish Temples (the holiest site in Judaism) and its later adoption as the departure point for Muhammad's Ascension (the third holiest site in Islam) is what makes it such a flashpoint of religious and political tension today.
so this third temple shit.. they don't get into it how there's this fuckin gold dome there, that they gotta like what do they say about it? They gotta get it out?
That's exactly the heart of the conflict. You're right to point out the huge obstacle the Dome of the Rock and the adjacent Al-Aqsa Mosque present.
The people who advocate for rebuilding the Jewish Third Temple have to address the fact that the golden dome sits right on top of what they believe is the exact spot for the Holy of Holies—the most sacred point where the Temple needs to stand.
Here are the main ways different groups who want the Third Temple built deal with the Dome of the Rock:
- The Divine/Messianic Approach (Mainstream Orthodox View) For most Orthodox Jews, this is not a practical problem for humans to solve. They believe the Temple will be rebuilt through:
The Messiah: The Jewish Messiah will arrive and miraculously oversee the reconstruction of the Temple, and it will be built at that time.
Divine Intervention: Some traditions suggest the Temple will descend from heaven, already built, and God will somehow clear the site.
God's Will: Essentially, a major global and supernatural event will occur that resolves the issue of the existing structures without human hands having to tear them down. This view is the most widely accepted because it respects the current status quo and avoids provoking a global war.
- The Architectural Compromise (Minority View) A few scholars and activist groups have tried to argue that the Dome of the Rock is not on the exact spot of the Holy of Holies. Their proposals include:
Building Next to It: They suggest the Temple could be built on the open space just to the north of the Dome of the Rock, allowing the two structures to exist side-by-side. However, most historians and archaeologists believe the Dome of the Rock is indeed directly over the Foundation Stone, which was the core of the ancient Temples.
- The Direct Removal (Extremist/Activist View) This view is held by a minority of far-right and activist groups, such as the Temple Institute or the Temple Mount Faithful, but they are very vocal and their actions often fuel the controversy.
Active Destruction/Removal: These groups openly state that for the Third Temple to be built, the Dome of the Rock (and the Al-Aqsa Mosque) would have to be removed—either by being peacefully disassembled and rebuilt elsewhere, or, in more extreme imaginations, being destroyed. Their rationale is that the commandment to build the Temple is paramount, and the Muslim structures are an occupation on the holiest site in Judaism.
In practice, the Israeli government strictly maintains the "status quo" on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, which means that the Muslim administration (the Waqf) controls the site and that no Jewish prayer or construction is allowed there. Any attempt to alter or damage the Dome of the Rock would be considered an act of war and would have catastrophic international consequences.
[end of conversation for now.. lol]
[part 7]
building the third temple.. seems like this gold dome muslim place is in the same area. I thought.. maybe you can just build this third temple, like the outer walls, the gold dome place could be "in there", within the third temple.. would that be "ok"?
That is a question that goes to the heart of one of the most complex and sensitive geopolitical and religious issues in the world.
The area you are referring to is known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary). It is the holiest site in Judaism (the location of the First and Second Jewish Temples) and the third holiest site in Islam (home to the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque).
The simple answer to whether building the Third Temple's outer walls around the Dome of the Rock would be "okay" is no, under the current situation and the deeply held beliefs and historical narratives of both Jews and Muslims.
Here is a breakdown of why this is such a sensitive topic:
The Location: Many believe the Dome of the Rock is built over or very near the exact spot where the Holy of Holies (the innermost sanctuary of the Jewish Temples) once stood. The idea of the Third Temple is that it should be built in that same sacred location.
Religious Significance of the Dome of the Rock: The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine built in the late 7th century, making it one of the oldest extant Islamic structures. It enshrines the Foundation Stone, which is incredibly significant in both Judaism (as the traditional location of the Holy of Holies and the Binding of Isaac) and Islam (as the spot where the Prophet Muhammad is believed to have ascended to heaven on his Night Journey). Moving, altering, or enclosing it would be seen by Muslims worldwide as an unforgivable sacrilege and an act of war.
The Status Quo: The site is currently administered by a Muslim religious trust (the Waqf) under the custodianship of Jordan, while Israel maintains overall security control. This arrangement, known as the "Status Quo," generally prohibits non-Muslim prayer on the Mount and aims to preserve the existing structures. Any significant change—such as building new structures, even outer walls—would be considered a violation of the Status Quo and would almost certainly ignite widespread conflict.
In short, the two structures—the hypothetical Third Temple and the existing Dome of the Rock—are viewed by their respective adherents as needing to occupy or dominate the same central, sacred space. Because of the deep religious convictions and history tied to the location, the proposed compromise of "building around it" would not resolve the fundamental clash of claims and would likely be viewed as an attempt to diminish the Islamic site.
maybe you can just set off a nuke and blow up both these areas.. would that resolve something?
A nuclear detonation on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, even a small one, would not resolve the underlying conflicts; instead, it would instantly escalate them into a catastrophe with unimaginable political, religious, and humanitarian consequences.
Here is why that scenario would be devastating:
Massive Loss of Life and Widespread Contamination: The site is in the middle of a densely populated city. A nuclear explosion would result in the immediate death of tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians. The resulting blast, heat, and radiation would destroy much of the Old City of Jerusalem, one of the most historically and religiously significant places on Earth. The radioactive fallout would render the entire area, including surrounding residential neighborhoods, uninhabitable for an extended period.
Global Religious War: The site is the single holiest place in Judaism (Temple Mount) and the third-holiest site in Islam (Haram al-Sharif, home to the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque). Its deliberate destruction would be universally viewed by Muslims and many Christians as a profound, irreparable act of sacrilege. It would not only shatter any hope for peace but would likely ignite a global religious and political conflict with no foreseeable end.
Political and Diplomatic Isolation: The use of a nuclear weapon, especially on a religious site in a major city, is a violation of international norms and laws that would unite the entire world—including all major powers and international organizations—in condemnation. Any entity responsible would be isolated and face massive international retaliation.
Creating a Void, Not Peace: The goal of building the Third Temple is tied to a belief in future redemption and a place for Divine presence. Blowing up the site would not clear the way for its construction; it would turn the holiest spot into a radioactive crater, making it impossible for anyone to pray, build, or visit, thus creating a devastating void rather than resolving the core issue.
In short, using a weapon of mass destruction on this site would not bring a solution; it would be the start of a far greater, more destructive conflict. The political and spiritual issues would remain, but the human cost would be immeasurable.
how come these gold dome guys are so into that spot?
The "gold dome" you're referring to is the Dome of the Rock, and the entire compound, which also includes the Al-Aqsa Mosque, is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary).
The area is one of the most revered places in the entire Islamic faith—it is considered the third holiest site in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.
Here are the main reasons why it is so significant to Muslims:
The Night Journey and Ascension (Al-Isra wal-Mi'raj): This is the most crucial connection. Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet Muhammad traveled miraculously in a single night from Mecca to the "Farthest Mosque" (Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem. From the rock underneath the Dome of the Rock, he is believed to have then ascended into Heaven to meet God and receive the commandment for Muslims to perform the five daily prayers.
The First Qibla: The site was the original direction of prayer (Qibla) for Muslims for a time before it was changed to the Kaaba in Mecca. This historical role reinforces its foundational importance in the faith.
Connection to Earlier Prophets: Islam shares a belief in the earlier prophets of Judaism and Christianity, such as Abraham, Moses, and Solomon, all of whom are also revered in Islam. Muslim tradition links the sacred rock (known as the Foundation Stone in Judaism) to the creation of the world and other events involving these prophets, establishing its ancient spiritual significance within the Abrahamic lineage.
Architectural and Historical Heritage: The Dome of the Rock itself is one of the oldest surviving buildings of Islamic architecture, completed in 691 CE. Its magnificent structure is a powerful, centuries-old symbol of Islamic presence, history, and identity in Jerusalem.
In summary, the compound is central to the Muslim faith because it marks the miraculous culmination of the Prophet Muhammad's journey, making it a sacred point where the earthly and divine worlds connected.
what's up with this fuckin rock down there?
That "rock" is arguably the single most sacred and contentious piece of real estate in the world. It is the natural bedrock visible inside the Dome of the Rock shrine, and its significance goes back thousands of years, as it's holy to all three major Abrahamic religions.
For Judaism, it is known as the Foundation Stone (Even ha-Shetiyah):
Creation of the World: Traditional Jewish sources believe this rock is the spot from which God began the creation of the world, making it the very first piece of land to emerge from the primordial waters. It is considered the "navel of the world."
The Temples: It is believed to be the spot where the Holy of Holies—the most sacred inner sanctuary of both the First and Second Jewish Temples—was located. The Ark of the Covenant rested here in the First Temple.
Binding of Isaac: Many traditions identify the rock as the location on Mount Moriah where Abraham was told to sacrifice his son Isaac (known as the Binding of Isaac, or Akedah).
For Islam, it is known as the Noble Rock (al-Sakhrah al-Musharrafah):
The Ascension: As mentioned before, this is the point from which the Prophet Muhammad is believed to have miraculously ascended to heaven during the Night Journey (Mi'raj).
Continuity: It links Islam to the earlier prophets, like Abraham and Solomon, whom Muslims also revere.
Its history as the center of the Jewish Temples (the holiest site in Judaism) and its later adoption as the departure point for Muhammad's Ascension (the third holiest site in Islam) is what makes it such a flashpoint of religious and political tension today.
[end of conversation for now.. going to bed.. lol]
[part 7]
building the third temple.. seems like this gold dome muslim place is in the same area. I thought.. maybe you can just build this third temple, like the outer walls, the gold dome place could be "in there", within the third temple.. would that be "ok"?
That is a question that goes to the heart of one of the most complex and sensitive geopolitical and religious issues in the world.
The area you are referring to is known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary). It is the holiest site in Judaism (the location of the First and Second Jewish Temples) and the third holiest site in Islam (home to the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque).
The simple answer to whether building the Third Temple's outer walls around the Dome of the Rock would be "okay" is no, under the current situation and the deeply held beliefs and historical narratives of both Jews and Muslims.
Here is a breakdown of why this is such a sensitive topic:
The Location: Many believe the Dome of the Rock is built over or very near the exact spot where the Holy of Holies (the innermost sanctuary of the Jewish Temples) once stood. The idea of the Third Temple is that it should be built in that same sacred location.
Religious Significance of the Dome of the Rock: The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic shrine built in the late 7th century, making it one of the oldest extant Islamic structures. It enshrines the Foundation Stone, which is incredibly significant in both Judaism (as the traditional location of the Holy of Holies and the Binding of Isaac) and Islam (as the spot where the Prophet Muhammad is believed to have ascended to heaven on his Night Journey). Moving, altering, or enclosing it would be seen by Muslims worldwide as an unforgivable sacrilege and an act of war.
The Status Quo: The site is currently administered by a Muslim religious trust (the Waqf) under the custodianship of Jordan, while Israel maintains overall security control. This arrangement, known as the "Status Quo," generally prohibits non-Muslim prayer on the Mount and aims to preserve the existing structures. Any significant change—such as building new structures, even outer walls—would be considered a violation of the Status Quo and would almost certainly ignite widespread conflict.
In short, the two structures—the hypothetical Third Temple and the existing Dome of the Rock—are viewed by their respective adherents as needing to occupy or dominate the same central, sacred space. Because of the deep religious convictions and history tied to the location, the proposed compromise of "building around it" would not resolve the fundamental clash of claims and would likely be viewed as an attempt to diminish the Islamic site.
maybe you can just set off a nuke and blow up both these areas.. would that resolve something?
A nuclear detonation on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, even a small one, would not resolve the underlying conflicts; instead, it would instantly escalate them into a catastrophe with unimaginable political, religious, and humanitarian consequences.
Here is why that scenario would be devastating:
Massive Loss of Life and Widespread Contamination: The site is in the middle of a densely populated city. A nuclear explosion would result in the immediate death of tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians. The resulting blast, heat, and radiation would destroy much of the Old City of Jerusalem, one of the most historically and religiously significant places on Earth. The radioactive fallout would render the entire area, including surrounding residential neighborhoods, uninhabitable for an extended period.
Global Religious War: The site is the single holiest place in Judaism (Temple Mount) and the third-holiest site in Islam (Haram al-Sharif, home to the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque). Its deliberate destruction would be universally viewed by Muslims and many Christians as a profound, irreparable act of sacrilege. It would not only shatter any hope for peace but would likely ignite a global religious and political conflict with no foreseeable end.
Political and Diplomatic Isolation: The use of a nuclear weapon, especially on a religious site in a major city, is a violation of international norms and laws that would unite the entire world—including all major powers and international organizations—in condemnation. Any entity responsible would be isolated and face massive international retaliation.
Creating a Void, Not Peace: The goal of building the Third Temple is tied to a belief in future redemption and a place for Divine presence. Blowing up the site would not clear the way for its construction; it would turn the holiest spot into a radioactive crater, making it impossible for anyone to pray, build, or visit, thus creating a devastating void rather than resolving the core issue.
In short, using a weapon of mass destruction on this site would not bring a solution; it would be the start of a far greater, more destructive conflict. The political and spiritual issues would remain, but the human cost would be immeasurable.
how come these gold dome guys are so into that spot?
The "gold dome" you're referring to is the Dome of the Rock, and the entire compound, which also includes the Al-Aqsa Mosque, is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (The Noble Sanctuary).
The area is one of the most revered places in the entire Islamic faith—it is considered the third holiest site in Islam, after Mecca and Medina.
Here are the main reasons why it is so significant to Muslims:
The Night Journey and Ascension (Al-Isra wal-Mi'raj): This is the most crucial connection. Islamic tradition holds that the Prophet Muhammad traveled miraculously in a single night from Mecca to the "Farthest Mosque" (Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem. From the rock underneath the Dome of the Rock, he is believed to have then ascended into Heaven to meet God and receive the commandment for Muslims to perform the five daily prayers.
The First Qibla: The site was the original direction of prayer (Qibla) for Muslims for a time before it was changed to the Kaaba in Mecca. This historical role reinforces its foundational importance in the faith.
Connection to Earlier Prophets: Islam shares a belief in the earlier prophets of Judaism and Christianity, such as Abraham, Moses, and Solomon, all of whom are also revered in Islam. Muslim tradition links the sacred rock (known as the Foundation Stone in Judaism) to the creation of the world and other events involving these prophets, establishing its ancient spiritual significance within the Abrahamic lineage.
Architectural and Historical Heritage: The Dome of the Rock itself is one of the oldest surviving buildings of Islamic architecture, completed in 691 CE. Its magnificent structure is a powerful, centuries-old symbol of Islamic presence, history, and identity in Jerusalem.
In summary, the compound is central to the Muslim faith because it marks the miraculous culmination of the Prophet Muhammad's journey, making it a sacred point where the earthly and divine worlds connected.
[end of the conversation for now]