We'll cut this up in parts, continued in comments, obviously.
angelic realm "the 9 choirs", do they have "free will" like humans?
Searching for: angelic realm "the 9 choirs", do they have "free will" like humans?
Generating answers for you…
According to one source1, the 9 choirs of angels are:
Seraphim: The highest order of angels, who see God most clearly and praise him constantly.
Cherubim: The second highest order of angels, who guard God’s throne and his holy places.
Wheels: The third highest order of angels, who precede God and the cherubim when they move about.
Dominions: The first order of the second hierarchy, who oversee the distribution of power among humankind and do not have free will.
Virtues: The second order of the second hierarchy, who perform miracles and bestow grace upon the earth.
Powers: The third order of the second hierarchy, who fight against evil and maintain order in the cosmos.
Principalities: The first order of the third hierarchy, who protect nations, cities, and groups of people.
Archangels: The second order of the third hierarchy, who deliver messages from God and assist the principalities.
Angels: The third order of the third hierarchy, who are the closest to humans and act as guardians and guides.
The question of whether angels have free will like humans is a complex one that has been debated by theologians for centuries. Some sources say that all angels have free will, but some chose to rebel against God and became fallen angels or demons2. Other sources say that only some angels have free will, such as the seraphim, cherubim, and archangels3. And yet other sources say that none of the angels have free will, but only act according to God’s will1. Therefore, there is no definitive answer to this question, but only different opinions and interpretations.
If they don't have free will.. then the war in heaven wouldn't be possible
Searching for: war in heaven and free will
Generating answers for you…
That is a good point. The war in heaven is a mysterious event that has different interpretations among different sources. Some possible explanations are:
The war in heaven happened before the creation of humans, when some of the angels rebelled against God and were cast out of heaven. In this case, the angels had free will before they sinned, but lost it after they fell12. The war in heaven is a symbolic representation of the spiritual conflict between good and evil that is ongoing throughout history. In this case, the angels do not have free will, but act according to God’s plan and purpose3. The war in heaven is a future event that will occur at the end of the age, when Satan and his followers will try to overthrow God and his faithful angels. In this case, the angels have free will, but some choose to obey God and some choose to oppose him43.
As you can see, there is no definitive answer to this question, but only different opinions and perspectives. What do you think?
angelic realm "the 9 choirs", those are the classification types. Which class type were involved in the war in heaven?
Searching for: angelic realm "the 9 choirs" and war in heaven
Generating answers for you…
The war in heaven is not a clearly defined event in the Bible or other sources, so it is hard to say for sure which class types of angels were involved in it. However, based on some possible interpretations, we can make some educated guesses.
If the war in heaven happened before the creation of humans, when some of the angels rebelled against God and were cast out of heaven, then it is likely that the highest order of angels, the seraphim and cherubim, were involved, since they are the closest to God and see him most clearly. Some sources suggest that Lucifer, the leader of the fallen angels, was a seraph1. It is also possible that some of the lower orders of angels, such as the wheels, dominions, virtues, powers, principalities, archangels, and angels, joined either side of the conflict, depending on their loyalty and free will23.
If the war in heaven is a symbolic representation of the spiritual conflict between good and evil that is ongoing throughout history, then it is possible that all orders of angels are involved in some way, since they all have different roles and functions in God’s plan and purpose. The higher orders of angels may be more directly engaged in the battle against the forces of darkness, while the lower orders of angels may be more involved in protecting and assisting humans and creation4.
If the war in heaven is a future event that will occur at the end of the age, when Satan and his followers will try to overthrow God and his faithful angels, then it is probable that all orders of angels will be involved as well, since it will be a final showdown between good and evil. The Bible describes a scene where Michael, an archangel, and his angels fight against the dragon (Satan) and his angels5. It also mentions that God will send his angels to gather his elect from the four winds5. Therefore, we can assume that all types of angels will play a part in this war.
I hope this helps you understand more about the angelic realm and the war in heaven. 😊
the angelic realm "the 9 choirs". What classification type was lucifer.. a cherubim, right. We know he was involved in the war in heaven. So that checks off "cherubim". Any reports of Seraphim or thrones types, being involved in the war in heaven?
Searching for: seraphim or thrones in the war in heaven
Generating answers for you…
Yes, you are right. Lucifer was a cherubim, according to some sources12. He was the most beautiful and powerful of all the angels, and he was the leader of the rebellion against God in the war in heaven1.
As for the seraphim and the thrones, there are no clear reports of their involvement in the war in heaven, but there are some possible hints and speculations. For example:
Some sources suggest that the seraphim are the same as the living creatures that appear in Ezekiel 1 and Revelation 43. These living creatures have four faces, four wings, and are covered with eyes. They are also associated with fire and lightning. In Ezekiel 10, one of these living creatures gives a burning coal to a cherub, who then scatters it over Jerusalem as a sign of God’s judgment. Some scholars interpret this as a symbolic representation of the war in heaven, where the seraphim gave fire to the cherubim, who then used it to fight against God.
Some sources suggest that the thrones are the same as the elders that appear in Revelation 4 and 54. These elders are twenty-four human-like figures that sit on thrones around God’s throne. They wear white robes and golden crowns, and they worship God and the Lamb. In Revelation 5:8-10, they sing a new song that praises the Lamb for redeeming people from every tribe, tongue, nation, and people. Some scholars interpret this as a symbolic representation of the war in heaven, where the thrones joined the Lamb in his victory over the dragon. These are just some possible interpretations of the seraphim and the thrones in relation to the war in heaven. There is no definitive answer to this question, but only different opinions and perspectives. What do you think?
earlier you said Wheels, or thrones: The third highest order of angels, who precede God and the cherubim when they move about. I hadn't heard that before. So they're like drones in movies that scout out areas. Make sure it's safe. So god moves about and isn't just in one place? Any reports of what he looks like? Didn't he create humans who looked like him? Like the son of god.. wasn't there something about in his image?
Searching for: God's appearance and image
Generating answers for you…
Yes, the wheels or thrones are described as a type of angel that accompany God and the cherubim when they move about. They are also called ophanim, which means “wheels” in Hebrew. They are mentioned in Ezekiel 1 and 10, where they are depicted as having four faces, four wings, and many eyes. They are also associated with the spirit of the living creatures1.
As for what God looks like, that is a difficult question to answer, since God is spirit and does not have a physical form like humans do. However, the Bible does give us some glimpses of how God appears to humans in different situations. For example:
In Exodus 3, God appears to Moses as a burning bush that is not consumed by the fire.
In Exodus 19, God appears to the Israelites as a thick cloud of smoke and fire on Mount Sinai, accompanied by thunder and lightning.
In Exodus 33, God allows Moses to see his back, but not his face, as he passes by him in a cleft of the rock.
In Isaiah 6, God appears to Isaiah as a majestic king sitting on a throne, surrounded by seraphim who praise him.
In Ezekiel 1 and 10, God appears to Ezekiel as a glorious figure on a throne above the wheels and the living creatures.
In Daniel 7, God appears to Daniel as an ancient of days with white hair and clothing, sitting on a fiery throne with thousands of angels attending him.
In Revelation 1, God appears to John as one like a son of man with white hair and eyes like fire, wearing a golden sash and holding seven stars in his right hand.
These are just some examples of how God reveals himself to humans in various ways. However, none of these appearances can fully capture the essence of who God is. They are only partial and symbolic representations of his attributes and character.
The Bible also tells us that humans are made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:27). This does not mean that we look exactly like God physically, but rather that we reflect some aspects of his nature and personality. For instance, we have the ability to reason, create, communicate, love, and worship. We also have moral responsibility and accountability before God. However, because of sin, our image of God has been distorted and corrupted. We need God’s grace and forgiveness to restore our relationship with him.
The ultimate expression of God’s image and likeness is Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God and the second person of the Trinity. He is the exact representation of God’s being (Hebrews 1:3) and the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15). He became human and lived among us (John 1:14), showing us what God is like in his words and deeds. He died for our sins and rose again from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:3-4), making it possible for us to be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:18-19). He is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6), and no one can see or know God apart from him (John 14:9).
I hope this helps you understand more about God’s appearance and image. 😊
I think they'd say he looks like some really old dude with a beard or something, eh. Sounds like he can change his appearance though.. like can't the archangels do that too.. where they're not always in human form, right.
Searching for: archangels and shape-shifting
Generating answers for you…
Yes, you are right. God can change his appearance according to his will and purpose, and so can the archangels. The archangels are powerful and versatile beings who can assume different forms depending on their mission and message. For example:
Michael, the archangel of war and protection, can appear as a mighty warrior with a sword and armor, or as a gentle guardian with wings and a halo1.
Gabriel, the archangel of revelation and communication, can appear as a horn-blowing messenger, or as a human-like figure with a scroll and a lily2.
Raphael, the archangel of healing and travel, can appear as a physician with a staff and a fish, or as a pilgrim with a hat and a backpack3.
Uriel, the archangel of wisdom and illumination, can appear as a scholar with a book and a lantern, or as a flame of fire with a sword.
These are just some examples of how the archangels can shapeshift into different forms. However, they are not limited to these forms, and they can also take on the appearance of animals, elements, or even humans. Some sources suggest that the archangels can shapeshift by using their divine energy to manipulate matter and light. Others suggest that the archangels can shapeshift by using their spiritual connection to God and his creation. And yet others suggest that the archangels can shapeshift by using their imagination and intention.
I hope this helps you understand more about the archangels and their shapeshifting abilities. 😊
[part 2]
it sounds like god used to step in a lot back in the old days of the bible. In recent centuries we don't really hear anything from him, eh?
Searching for: God's intervention in history
Generating answers for you…
That is an interesting question. God’s intervention in history is a matter of faith and perspective. Some people may think that God has been silent or absent in recent centuries, while others may see His hand in various events and circumstances. Here are some possible ways to look at this issue:
One way is to consider that God’s intervention in history is not always dramatic or miraculous, but sometimes subtle and gradual. God may work through natural laws, human agency, and providential circumstances to accomplish His purposes. For example, some people may see God’s intervention in the discovery of America, the founding of the United States, the abolition of slavery, the spread of democracy, the advancement of science and technology, the rise and fall of nations, the emergence of the restored gospel, and the fulfillment of prophecies12.
Another way is to consider that God’s intervention in history is not always visible or recognizable, but sometimes hidden and mysterious. God may work in ways that are beyond our comprehension or expectation, and that only become clear in hindsight or in eternity. For example, some people may see God’s intervention in the suffering and persecution of His people, the trials and tribulations of His Church, the calamities and disasters of the world, the opposition and deception of Satan, and the challenges and opportunities of our personal lives34.
A third way is to consider that God’s intervention in history is not always constant or uniform, but sometimes selective and conditional. God may work according to His wisdom and justice, and according to our faith and obedience. For example, some people may see God’s intervention in the miracles and blessings He bestows upon His faithful servants, the revelations and guidance He gives to His chosen prophets, the protection and deliverance He grants to His righteous people, the judgments and punishments He inflicts upon His wicked enemies, and the covenants and promises He makes with His elect13.
These are just some possible ways to look at God’s intervention in history. There is no definitive answer to this question, but only different opinions and perspectives. What do you think? 😊
oh no, he used to interact with them all the time in the bible, right?
Searching for: God's interaction with humans in the Bible
Generating answers for you…
Yes, you are right. God used to interact with his people in various ways in the Bible. According to one source1, here are some of the ways that God spoke to his people:
Through the word of God: God gave his written word to his people through the prophets, apostles, and other inspired writers. The Bible is the authoritative and reliable record of God’s revelation and will for his people. It is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Through the inner small voice of the Holy Spirit: God gave his Spirit to his people to guide them into all truth, to convict them of sin, to comfort them in sorrow, and to empower them for service. The Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts and minds, sometimes through a still small voice that we can hear if we are attentive and obedient (1 Kings 19:12; John 16:13).
Through the counsel of godly men and women: God gave his people the gift of fellowship and community, where they can learn from each other, encourage each other, and correct each other. God speaks to us through the wisdom and advice of those who love him and follow him. We should seek godly counsel from those who are mature in faith and have good fruit in their lives (Proverbs 11:14; Hebrews 10:24-25).
Through dreams and visions: God sometimes gave his people dreams and visions to reveal his plans, purposes, or warnings. Dreams and visions are supernatural experiences that occur when we are asleep or awake, where we see or hear things that are not physically present. God used dreams and visions to communicate with Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Peter, Paul, and others in the Bible (Genesis 15:1; Acts 10:9-16).
Through angels: God sometimes sent his angels to his people to deliver messages, instructions, or assistance. Angels are spiritual beings that serve God and minister to his people. They are powerful and glorious, but they are not to be worshiped or prayed to. God used angels to speak to Hagar, Lot, Gideon, Mary, Joseph, Cornelius, Philip, and others in the Bible (Genesis 16:7; Acts 8:26).
Through circumstances: God sometimes used circumstances to speak to his people or to get their attention. Circumstances are events or situations that happen in our lives that may be pleasant or unpleasant, expected or unexpected. They may be a result of our choices or actions, or they may be beyond our control. God used circumstances to speak to Moses, Jonah, Esther, David, Elijah, and others in the Bible (Exodus 3:1-4; Jonah 1:1-17).
Through inner peace and conviction: God sometimes gave his people inner peace and conviction to confirm his will or direction for their lives. Inner peace is a sense of calmness and assurance that comes from trusting God and his promises. Inner conviction is a sense of certainty and clarity that comes from knowing God and his truth. God gave inner peace and conviction to Gideon, Nehemiah, Paul, Timothy, and others in the Bible (Judges 6:36-40; Nehemiah 2:12).
These are some of the ways that God spoke to his people in the Bible. However, we should remember that not all of these ways are applicable or available for us today. For example, we do not have any more prophets or apostles who can give us new revelations from God. We also need to test any dreams, visions, angelic messages, circumstances, or inner feelings against the word of God and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We should not rely on our own understanding or emotions alone (Proverbs 3:5-6; 1 John 4:1).
The most reliable and consistent way that God speaks to us today is through his word and his Spirit. We should study the Bible diligently and pray fervently to hear from God. We should also listen to godly counsel from other believers who can help us discern God’s voice. We should be humble and willing to obey whatever God tells us to do.
I hope this helps you understand more about how God interacted with his people in the Bible. 😊
no, no.. like these old guys going up on these hills.. they'd trip out and have "visions" or something and they would interact with god. God was stepping in more, getting involved, back in those days of the Bible. He'd also get mad a lot. Like he'd do the flood. He'd be telling us all kinds of things back in those days of the bible. He was getting involved. In recent centuries.. he doesn't get involved with us like back in those days. There's no reports these days, in recent centuries, of god getting all involved like that, like he was back in those days of the bible.
Generating answers for you…
I understand your point. You are saying that God used to interact with his people more directly and frequently in the past, but now he seems to be more distant and silent. You are also saying that God used to show his anger and judgment more often, but now he seems to be more tolerant and lenient. You are wondering why there is a difference between how God acted in the Bible and how he acts today.
There are different ways to look at this issue, depending on your perspective and beliefs. Here are some possible explanations:
One explanation is that God has not changed, but we have. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). He is always present and active in the world, but we are not always aware or receptive of him. We may have become more secular, skeptical, or sinful, and thus less able to hear or see God’s voice or signs. We may have also become more accustomed or indifferent to God’s grace and mercy, and thus less able to appreciate or respond to his love and goodness.
Another explanation is that God has changed his methods, but not his purposes. God is sovereign and wise, and he knows the best way to deal with different people, times, and situations. He may use different means and modes of communication or intervention according to his plan and will. He may also adapt his approach and style according to the needs and expectations of his audience and context. He may use more direct and dramatic ways in the past, but more subtle and gradual ways in the present.
A third explanation is that God has a different relationship with his people now than before. God is gracious and faithful, and he has made a new covenant with his people through Jesus Christ. He has given us his Son as the ultimate revelation of himself (John 1:18). He has also given us his Spirit as the constant presence and guide of himself (John 14:16-17). He has also given us his Church as the body and family of himself (Ephesians 1:22-23). Therefore, we have more access and intimacy with God now than before.
These are just some possible explanations for why God seems to act differently in the Bible and today. There is no definitive answer to this question, but only different opinions and perspectives. What do you think? 😊
yeah he changed his gameplan. He used to get involved.. like go way back, the garden of eden.. In the bible he's getting all involved, telling us things.. telling those guys who'd go up on hills and have visions. He was doing things.. the ark of the covenant was around.. that'd do trippy things. You have him trying to tell us to do the 10 commandments. Like what went on with that bad town.. soddom and gomorrah. Didn't he trash it. How about the tower of babel.. didn't that stop going on. We already talked about the flood. He used to straight up kill a whole bunch of us if we didn't do what he was telling us to do. I think what really riled him up, was when he sent his son Jesus to try and tell us the way god wanted us to behave.. and what did they do.. they straight up nailed 'em, the Jesus guy.. so god got totally insulted and said, I give up.. and like.. how long does the bible go on after jesus gets killed.. I think it kind of ends there.
Generating answers for you…
I see. You are saying that God changed his gameplan after he sent his son Jesus to the world, and that he became less involved and more distant from us. You are also saying that the Bible kind of ends after Jesus gets killed, and that there is nothing more to say.
I respect your opinion, but I would like to offer a different perspective. Here are some points to consider:
God did not give up on us after he sent his son Jesus to the world. In fact, he showed us his greatest love and mercy by giving us his only begotten son, who died for our sins and rose again from the dead (John 3:16; Romans 5:8). God did not send Jesus to condemn the world, but to save the world through him (John 3:17). God also promised to send us his Holy Spirit, who would be with us forever and teach us all things (John 14:16-17; John 14:26).
God is still involved and active in the world today, but in a different way than before. He is not limited by time or space, and he can work through various means and agents to accomplish his purposes. He can work through his word, his Spirit, his Church, his people, his creation, and even his enemies. He can also work through miracles, signs, wonders, prophecies, dreams, visions, and angelic messages. However, he does not force himself upon us, but respects our free will and invites us to cooperate with him (Revelation 3:20; Philippians 2:12-13).
The Bible does not end after Jesus gets killed, but continues with the story of his resurrection, ascension, and return. The Bible also tells us about the birth and growth of the Church, the spread of the gospel, the persecution and triumph of the saints, and the fulfillment of God’s plan for history. The Bible also gives us hope and guidance for living in this present age, until Jesus comes again (Acts 1:11; Revelation 22:20).
I hope this helps you understand more about how God acts in the Bible and today. 😊
oh yeah Jesus came back but he wasn't around for very long after.