First, I don't recommend resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to strengthen your argument. It falls flat, and is logically bankrupt.
I am not Jewish in any way; my direct ancestors fought in the allied armies during the war, and they have stories about the depravities of the war as a whole.
I have extended family, in which many members are dead from the Holocaust, and I believe (though I'd need to double check), there were some that survived the same camps that killed the others. I believe that, if you looked at any large enough Jewish family, you would find a sizable portion are "missing" as a result of the war; a good tangible place to start when affirming evidence, as the proliferation of immediately fabricated evidence amongst a widespread civilian population would be a borderline impossibility to accomplish (that is to say, second hand regurgitation and continuation of propaganda is not uncommon, but every person in a populace fabricating evidence towards the same thing is much more difficult, and, as a result, a harder claim to both believe and prove).
My family heritage is Polish. I value Polish heritage, and the Holocaust is a sizable part of that in more recent times; as is the Communist occupation of Poland, in which atrocities of similar magnitude but less direction and organization occurred. To be clear; I do not sympathize with fascism or communism; I have more reason than most Americans to despise Communism and Fascism, for my heritage is one of fighting both in favor of individualism and liberty.
Second; I never called what you have to say "hate speech"; nor do I have any objective in removal of "hate speech". I think hate speech is protected, and I think that even violent speech should be protected, but that's another thing entirely.
I'm working on a fuller response, but because I value evidence being real, it will take me some time to find the proper documentation for what I am speaking of and compile it into a comprehensive report. I'm dedicated to seeing this through, but I also have other obligations. I'll just say if you don't hear from me by Wednesday consider me conceded to what you have said; is that fair?
After all, this documentary wasn't made in a day let alone minutes.
First, I don't recommend resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to strengthen your argument
I'd recommend getting an argument first. If you came to me in actual "good faith" instead turning your nose up because your ancestors are unaccustomed to physical labor the conversation would have went very differently.
I have extended family, in which many members are dead from the Holocaust
No you do not. Nobody died in "the holocaust" because it doesn't exist.
survived the same camps that killed the others. I
They were all labor camps. Auchwitz for the IG farben factory literally across the road. Only "death camps" were in soviet (bolshevist jew) territory and they refused investigation into these until the day the soviet union fell. The bolshevist jews poked holes in an air raid shelter and called it a "crematorium". Maybe you should watch the video, bucko.
believe that, if
I don't care what your belief is. I care about the facts
missing" as a result of the war; a good tangible place to start when affirming evidence,
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And wmds in Iraq are there because we don't have evidence for it, huh?
but every person in a populace fabricating evidence towards the same thing is much more difficult, and, as a result, a harder claim to both believe and prove)
It's part of their culture. You don't act so surprised when mexicans make tamales on new years.
And how is it "difficult"? Do you know how record keeping went in the 30s IN GERMANY. You could murder someone in the 70s and move to next county over and nobody would figure it out because they didn't have fucking computers, genius. There was no tracking these people. "6 million" was considered the entire jewish population in europe at that time. They got to Nuremberg and we're asked "how many?" They said "all of us, give me shekels..... and Palestine."
My family heritage is Polish
How many poles does it take to learn history..... they dont. I'll let the jokes make themselves, I guess.
and the Holocaust is a sizable part of that
Then your "heritage" is a lie. Sorry, not sorry.
for my heritage is one of fighting both in favor of individualism and liberty.
They did get the shitty end of the stick, but then again they're leaders were entertaining fever dreams of reinstituting a polish empire. The leaders of poland were very thirsty for german blood. Ive quoted this before but it's hard to find because it does throw a gigantic monkey wrench into the "official" ww2 story, as everything does when you look close enough. Maybe I'll find it.
ut because I value evidence being real
You haven't demonstrated that so far. Why start now?
I'll just say if you don't hear from me by Wednesday consider me conceded to what you have said; is that fair?
Look, I'm not trying to be the biggest edgelord I can. I just hopped on the net decades ago wanting to know about UFOs and shit.
What do I see? Levon affair, epstein, robert Maxwell buying the schoolbooks, everything points back to israel. I would much rather be discussing electromagnetic propulsion systems but the system of jewish supremacy subverting constitutional republics around the world has much more bearing over my life.
I thought it was bullshit to, until I gave it a shot. Said "what if it's true". That's all I really want from you is to keep an open mind and take an honest look at the evidence, real evidence.
Okay, well the first thing we can do if we're going to try and debate this logically is break up the issues and understand the arguments being made. Let's first find common ground; what do you think about David Cole's modern assessments as per an interview with The Guardian:
He became convinced that on some points they were right and that as a Jew, he would undertake a quixotic quest to "correct" the historical record, arguing that Auschwitz was not an extermination camp in the manner of Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzac and Chelmno – which he acknowledged were part of a genocidal programme against Polish Jews; that the Holocaust ended in 1943, when the Nazis realised they needed Jewish slave labour for factories; and that there was no overarching, genocidal plan, but an evolving, morphing policy which claimed perhaps 4 million, rather than 6 million, Jewish lives.
(Yes, it's The Guardian, but he agreed to an interview and does not appear to have challenged their publication that I see)
From what you've seen, it's hard to know for sure; do you believe Poland was fully the aggressor? What part do you believe Germany had in the war?
What's more; what do you think about the German actions up until that point? Did they violate the Treaty of Versailles? Did they initiate a forcefully backed annexation of Austria and swaths of Czechoslovakia?
You seem to (rightfully) dislike the Soviets extensively; what do you think about the modern narrative about the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, or the (at the time, ignored and under-reported) invasion of Poland by the Soviet Union; or the Polish-Soviet war of 1919 and 1920?
You seem to question US involvement in the war against Germany; what is your take on Pearl Harbor? What do you think about the narrative of the German declaration of war against the United States?
To be clear, these questions are not meant to be antagonistic. I just want to know where you stand so I can know what points we agree on and what I can argue based upon; if you are open minded as you claim and proclaim I should be, you should accept my attempts to counter-argue, just as I am willing to take your arguments and evidence and argue based on that. IMO open mindedness doesn't just mean accepting whatever anyone says; it means debate or argument with those you disagree with, and accepting defeat if they can prove you wrong; or coming to a compromise if the truth lies between both positions.
Let's first find common ground; what do you think about David Cole's modern assessments as per an interview with The Guardian:
How is this a "modern assessment" if the guy changed his name multiple times because the zionist cadre tried to murder him for exposing their fraud? And it contradicts itself saying "yes genocidal program" to "no, they just needed cheap labor"
Is there a video of this which proves it's him? I don't believe he said any of that. Even if he did it doesn't change the fact his video full of hard science completely destroyed the narrative.
do you believe Poland was fully the aggressor
I believe the claims of the Germans responding to "aggression" on the border are more than plausible given communist infiltration. They had third party swiss doctors come in to investigate. Contrast that with the bolsheviks and the crude holes in their air raid shelter.
I mean, we can find people "calling" WW2 and it's just centuries long tensions between old kingdoms. I'll try to edit with quotes of it "being set off in the balkans".
"Otto Von Bismarck predicted the start of World war I with quote “One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans (1888).”
If we can point the finger at any one people, it's the bolsheviks.
What part do you believe Germany had in the war?
The only crime of germany was that of being successful.
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/freedman.htm
What's more; what do you think about the German actions up until that point? Did they violate the Treaty of Versailles
Versailles was no "treaty". They slapped Germany down for the crime of being successful. In WW1 they won. England was going to surrender when America got involved. Who got America involved? The bolsheviks for palestine. The speech by Mr Freeman I sourced above this is enlightening. This is the "first hand knowledge" which I value.
Did they initiate a forcefully backed annexation of Austria and swaths of Czechoslovakia?
I don't know off hand and I won't pretend to know every detail of the wars by memory. I also don't give a shit about every tiny european country. Germany saw communism which is really jewish bolshevism taking europe and sacrificed itself to save the rest of us. They broke the molotov ribbentrop pact because they knew the shiesty jews were waiting to sweep the continent.
what do you think about the modern narrative about the Molotov Ribbentrop pact,
What is the modern narrative? That it was a ploy? I don't know exactly what you mean but I can tell you Hitler was disgusted by the jews and was himself jewish.
what is your take on Pearl Harbor?
Was japan starving at that point? If I remember they were pretty desperate. I don't know where youre going with any of these questions.
What do you think about the narrative of the German declaration of war against the United States?
I have no idea what you're talking about. If I had to guess I would say it was more political show at the tail end of the war than anything. And the United States never declared war on "the Nazi party" it was Germany.
you should accept my attempts to counter-argue,
Ok, do it.
IMO open mindedness doesn't just mean accepting whatever anyone says; it means debate or argument with those you disagree with
That's not what's you've demonstrated with your argument of "I have family, therefore the shoah definitely happened". That's not an argument.
The formatting seems to have got botched, but I think I've parsed it out.
The reason the Polish aggressor question is relevant to me is because I want to be on the same page about the validity of documentation and claims by the Polish Government in Exile and the Polish Underground; these are some of the most crucial documents in understanding what happened in Poland without going through German or Soviet sources, or Western sources that are just further bastardizations of the prior.
The question about the invasion of Poland is also interesting in that it assists in ascertaining motivations, and judging other actions, as well as the validity of those actions. It influences answers to questions such as "Was Germany completely in the right, and just being interfered with?" or "Was Poland allied to Communism?" and so on.
The answer to the questions of aggression can be found in the documentation of the time. This document, sourced for me by a friend living in Poland, is the original order of mobilization from the Polish government. This, combined with the other history of Poland from WWI out, shows us a few different things:
1.) Poland was on high alert for invasion from the Soviets since they experienced a pyrrhic victory in the Polish-Soviet war of 1919-1920. They Second Polish Republic was no ally to Communism, as no good Republic should be.
2.) Poland was on high alert in the 1930s because of the rising threat of aggression from Germany, with good reason:
Here is a map of German expansion prior to the war going hot; The orange is territory that Germany started with, post Versailles.
The marked Rhineland region was a demilitarized zone; Germany marched troops into said zone in the mid 1930s, re-militarizing it; an action met with strongly-worded letters from France and Britain.
In March of 1938, Germany announced the "Anschluss", translating to "Joining", of Germany and Austria. Without going into it too much, this decision was controversial; many Austrians wanted to retain independence, but some had German heritage and wanted to be re-united. The decision to march the German army through Austria was a signal to those opposing the annexation; resistance will be met with bullets.
Later in 1938, the Germans demanded Czechoslovakia surrender the Sudetenland, a region inhabited primarily by the Sudeten Germans. This, again, brought the objections of the Western Allies; resolution was found in the Munich Agreement, in which the Germans were granted Sudetenland in exchange for promising they would cease territorial expansions of any kind. This conference did not allow any input from Czechoslovakia, from whom the lands were being taken at that time. Given that they had effectively completely defied the Treaty of Versailles by that point, it was apparent that the Western Allies would do virtually anything to appease and avoid war. British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain is famously quoted saying, on return from the Munich Conference, "I believe it is peace for our time".
In a short order later, Czechoslovakia, under continued pressure from Germany, fractured; Czech lands were consumed by Germany, while Poland and Hungry rushed to claim Slovakia, primarily to prevent other powers from securing it (something that partially failed, as much of Slovakia was puppeted by Germany as the "Slovak Republic"). The breakdown of that can be seen here.
By that point, it was clear that Germany was continuing on the path of expansion, and that the Western Allies would do nothing to prevent it. Germany now looked to the East; they were intent on seizing what was effectively a protectorate of Poland; the Free City of Danzig/Gdansk. Closely tied with Poland, it was Poland's only significant port and an absolutely critical trade hub to the nation. Germany demanded it, and Poland refused. To justify war, Germany staged a set of false-flag attacks, including the Gleiwitz incident (Something corroborated by significant testimony form many involved). The next morning, the invasion began.
It was not initiated by Poland. The date on the mobilization notice is the 30th of August; war began two days later. Poland actually attempted to mobilize sooner; they knew what was in store, and wanted to defend against it. They could have raised as much as double the manpower had they had the time, but the British and French strongly compelled them to stop, as they were still under the impression that war could be avoided. If Poland wanted to conquer Germany, they would have mobilized sooner, trained more, and procured more equipment; instead, they faced a losing defensive battle, though they put up significant resistance, the strength of which was extensively underplayed by both the German and Allied propaganda machines; the Germans wanted to appear stronger, and the Allies wanted to have an excuse for their complete military incompetence.
This is where the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact comes in. As per the agreement, Germany wasn't the only country to invade Poland; the Soviets invaded from the east shortly after the Germans invaded from the West. As strong as it's resistance was, Poland had no chance to defend against both powers, given that their primary defensive lines were rivers, which, obviously, can't be used for defense both ways. That should be the final nail in the coffin of the idea that the Polish government might somehow be sympathetic to or allied with Communism.
That said, the importance of the establishment of the motivations and allegiances of the Polish government lies in the understanding and interpretation of the actions of the Polish people and government, as well as the original documentation of the time. Early in the documentary, David Cole claims "there's no picture, plan, or wartime document dealing with homicidal gas chambers or a plan to exterminate the Jews" [12:56]; something that is simply not true. There is documentation from the Polish underground detailing it; evidence that was transmitted to the Government-in-exile relatively early in the war, and suppressed by the Western Allies. For this, we turn to Pilecki's Report.
In 1939, after Poland was defeated, Major Jan Włodarkiewicz and cavalry captain Witold Pilecki founded the Secret Polish Army. In 1940, Pilecki devised and presented a plan to infiltrate Auschwitz, gather intelligence, and organize the inmates to resist. This plan was accepted, and he got himself arrested and placed into the camp. He managed to organize a few inmates, and managed to get communications sent from the Camp to his superiors. His reports detailed atrocities taking place there; he requested that the allies drop supplies or troops into the camp to enable an organized resistance (as the inmates were not strong enough to conduct an effective resistance alone). In 1943, he escaped the camp and wrote "Raport W.", a thorough and detailed report of the camp, one which was signed by the other members involved in the operation, as his prior communications were downplayed or ignored by the Western Allies.
To be fair to Cole, this report was not published in any form until 2000, and not in English until 2012. That said, this documentary, as per admittance in the documentary, is not proof that the Holocaust didn't happen. The video does point out what is now commonly understood, accepted, and taught; that evidence of the specifics of the Holocaust has been manipulated, and, in some instances, fabricated. That said, as I implied before, the two greatest types of evidence we possess, and, frankly, the only evidence possible and trustworthy, is documentation from the time and reports from those that were there. As to the latter, there is sizable room for error; eye witness reports are notorious for failures, and, in such an experience as traumatic as reported, there is significant room for confused distortion. On top of that, it is more or less impossible for an eye-witness to have or provide accurate death tolls first hand. That is why the Pilecki report is valuable; it is a very deliberate report where details were taken at the time they happened, not recalled and written years later.
Those documents, combined with those of the period, and an analysis of other motivations and actions we can verify, are the only ways you could possibly prove such things.
For example; Cole focuses intently on the gas chambers as a supposed proof; yet, the failure in that is that no physical instance of a gas chamber would be proof to one that is truly skeptical. After all, if the Soviets had staged the whole thing, would it be hard to believe that they would have made a gas chamber themselves, executed people in it, and then presented it as evidence? For that matter, if the Soviets were so intent on fabrication, and the Poles so complicit, why wouldn't they have gone more over the top? Why not fill the room for days with Gas in order to stain the walls blue, something that would be an obviously easy way of improving a fabrication. Regardless; it would not be accepted as evidence, and indeed, alone, it is not suitable evidence.
See, the biggest thing to realize here, and that Cole appears to realize as per later interviews (such as the one I sent the quote from; and, to be clear, you believe it may be fabricated, yet he would have had ample opportunity to reverse that statement later, as he reversed his acceptance of the mainstream argument in a later book of his.) is that the issue is not black and white. There is no prove or disprove for most of it; small pieces, yes, but not the whole of it. Most evidence would be anecdotal or subject to propaganda, which can have a whole variety of motivations both for the exaggeration and for the suppression of the actions. It is very possible that figures are wrong, or details of testimonies inaccurate; that is why said figures are presented as estimates.
While I have not personally read it, I will put forth as counter-evidence three different sources:
One; Raport W; if you are willing to trust English translation, or if you are willing to learn (or already know) Polish and will seek out the original documentation and read it. According to translation, it includes details about genocide performed in the camp, including gassings.
Two; "The Destruction of the European Jews", a book by historial Raul Hilberg, written in 1961 and revised since as more direct sources are made available. This book is said to be extensively based on writings and testimonies of those that were there; survivors, perpetrators, and the less involved. These documents are both from the period and from the time after.
Three; the resources available at this website, which contain statements from historians, citations, and even discusses many of the objections raised by David Cole. As per the prior, I have not extensively evaluated any of these resources; I plan on doing so in the coming days.
If you can find refutations to their primary claims or arguments, I would appreciate those here. I don't mean "this isn't right" or things like that; I mean proper documentation or evidence that proves each explicitly to the contrary.
As a closing note; Witold Pilecki's report is not Communist propaganda. After the "liberation" and reoccupation of Poland by the Soviets, Witold continued the underground resistance to the Soviet occupational government. For that, he joined the death count of the thousands if not millions of Poles mercilessly murdered by the Soviet Union.
Apologies for any errors or mistakes; this post took me over two hours to source and write, and I'm just about out of characters, as well.
"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to." (Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)"
First, I don't recommend resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to strengthen your argument. It falls flat, and is logically bankrupt.
I am not Jewish in any way; my direct ancestors fought in the allied armies during the war, and they have stories about the depravities of the war as a whole.
I have extended family, in which many members are dead from the Holocaust, and I believe (though I'd need to double check), there were some that survived the same camps that killed the others. I believe that, if you looked at any large enough Jewish family, you would find a sizable portion are "missing" as a result of the war; a good tangible place to start when affirming evidence, as the proliferation of immediately fabricated evidence amongst a widespread civilian population would be a borderline impossibility to accomplish (that is to say, second hand regurgitation and continuation of propaganda is not uncommon, but every person in a populace fabricating evidence towards the same thing is much more difficult, and, as a result, a harder claim to both believe and prove).
My family heritage is Polish. I value Polish heritage, and the Holocaust is a sizable part of that in more recent times; as is the Communist occupation of Poland, in which atrocities of similar magnitude but less direction and organization occurred. To be clear; I do not sympathize with fascism or communism; I have more reason than most Americans to despise Communism and Fascism, for my heritage is one of fighting both in favor of individualism and liberty.
Second; I never called what you have to say "hate speech"; nor do I have any objective in removal of "hate speech". I think hate speech is protected, and I think that even violent speech should be protected, but that's another thing entirely.
I'm working on a fuller response, but because I value evidence being real, it will take me some time to find the proper documentation for what I am speaking of and compile it into a comprehensive report. I'm dedicated to seeing this through, but I also have other obligations. I'll just say if you don't hear from me by Wednesday consider me conceded to what you have said; is that fair?
After all, this documentary wasn't made in a day let alone minutes.
I'd recommend getting an argument first. If you came to me in actual "good faith" instead turning your nose up because your ancestors are unaccustomed to physical labor the conversation would have went very differently.
No you do not. Nobody died in "the holocaust" because it doesn't exist.
They were all labor camps. Auchwitz for the IG farben factory literally across the road. Only "death camps" were in soviet (bolshevist jew) territory and they refused investigation into these until the day the soviet union fell. The bolshevist jews poked holes in an air raid shelter and called it a "crematorium". Maybe you should watch the video, bucko.
I don't care what your belief is. I care about the facts
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And wmds in Iraq are there because we don't have evidence for it, huh?
It's part of their culture. You don't act so surprised when mexicans make tamales on new years.
And how is it "difficult"? Do you know how record keeping went in the 30s IN GERMANY. You could murder someone in the 70s and move to next county over and nobody would figure it out because they didn't have fucking computers, genius. There was no tracking these people. "6 million" was considered the entire jewish population in europe at that time. They got to Nuremberg and we're asked "how many?" They said "all of us, give me shekels..... and Palestine."
How many poles does it take to learn history..... they dont. I'll let the jokes make themselves, I guess.
Then your "heritage" is a lie. Sorry, not sorry.
They did get the shitty end of the stick, but then again they're leaders were entertaining fever dreams of reinstituting a polish empire. The leaders of poland were very thirsty for german blood. Ive quoted this before but it's hard to find because it does throw a gigantic monkey wrench into the "official" ww2 story, as everything does when you look close enough. Maybe I'll find it.
You haven't demonstrated that so far. Why start now?
Look, I'm not trying to be the biggest edgelord I can. I just hopped on the net decades ago wanting to know about UFOs and shit.
What do I see? Levon affair, epstein, robert Maxwell buying the schoolbooks, everything points back to israel. I would much rather be discussing electromagnetic propulsion systems but the system of jewish supremacy subverting constitutional republics around the world has much more bearing over my life.
I thought it was bullshit to, until I gave it a shot. Said "what if it's true". That's all I really want from you is to keep an open mind and take an honest look at the evidence, real evidence.
Okay, well the first thing we can do if we're going to try and debate this logically is break up the issues and understand the arguments being made. Let's first find common ground; what do you think about David Cole's modern assessments as per an interview with The Guardian:
(Yes, it's The Guardian, but he agreed to an interview and does not appear to have challenged their publication that I see)
From what you've seen, it's hard to know for sure; do you believe Poland was fully the aggressor? What part do you believe Germany had in the war?
What's more; what do you think about the German actions up until that point? Did they violate the Treaty of Versailles? Did they initiate a forcefully backed annexation of Austria and swaths of Czechoslovakia?
You seem to (rightfully) dislike the Soviets extensively; what do you think about the modern narrative about the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, or the (at the time, ignored and under-reported) invasion of Poland by the Soviet Union; or the Polish-Soviet war of 1919 and 1920?
You seem to question US involvement in the war against Germany; what is your take on Pearl Harbor? What do you think about the narrative of the German declaration of war against the United States?
To be clear, these questions are not meant to be antagonistic. I just want to know where you stand so I can know what points we agree on and what I can argue based upon; if you are open minded as you claim and proclaim I should be, you should accept my attempts to counter-argue, just as I am willing to take your arguments and evidence and argue based on that. IMO open mindedness doesn't just mean accepting whatever anyone says; it means debate or argument with those you disagree with, and accepting defeat if they can prove you wrong; or coming to a compromise if the truth lies between both positions.
Let's first find common ground; what do you think about David Cole's modern assessments as per an interview with The Guardian: How is this a "modern assessment" if the guy changed his name multiple times because the zionist cadre tried to murder him for exposing their fraud? And it contradicts itself saying "yes genocidal program" to "no, they just needed cheap labor" Is there a video of this which proves it's him? I don't believe he said any of that. Even if he did it doesn't change the fact his video full of hard science completely destroyed the narrative.
The formatting seems to have got botched, but I think I've parsed it out.
The reason the Polish aggressor question is relevant to me is because I want to be on the same page about the validity of documentation and claims by the Polish Government in Exile and the Polish Underground; these are some of the most crucial documents in understanding what happened in Poland without going through German or Soviet sources, or Western sources that are just further bastardizations of the prior.
The question about the invasion of Poland is also interesting in that it assists in ascertaining motivations, and judging other actions, as well as the validity of those actions. It influences answers to questions such as "Was Germany completely in the right, and just being interfered with?" or "Was Poland allied to Communism?" and so on.
The answer to the questions of aggression can be found in the documentation of the time. This document, sourced for me by a friend living in Poland, is the original order of mobilization from the Polish government. This, combined with the other history of Poland from WWI out, shows us a few different things: 1.) Poland was on high alert for invasion from the Soviets since they experienced a pyrrhic victory in the Polish-Soviet war of 1919-1920. They Second Polish Republic was no ally to Communism, as no good Republic should be. 2.) Poland was on high alert in the 1930s because of the rising threat of aggression from Germany, with good reason: Here is a map of German expansion prior to the war going hot; The orange is territory that Germany started with, post Versailles.
By that point, it was clear that Germany was continuing on the path of expansion, and that the Western Allies would do nothing to prevent it. Germany now looked to the East; they were intent on seizing what was effectively a protectorate of Poland; the Free City of Danzig/Gdansk. Closely tied with Poland, it was Poland's only significant port and an absolutely critical trade hub to the nation. Germany demanded it, and Poland refused. To justify war, Germany staged a set of false-flag attacks, including the Gleiwitz incident (Something corroborated by significant testimony form many involved). The next morning, the invasion began.
It was not initiated by Poland. The date on the mobilization notice is the 30th of August; war began two days later. Poland actually attempted to mobilize sooner; they knew what was in store, and wanted to defend against it. They could have raised as much as double the manpower had they had the time, but the British and French strongly compelled them to stop, as they were still under the impression that war could be avoided. If Poland wanted to conquer Germany, they would have mobilized sooner, trained more, and procured more equipment; instead, they faced a losing defensive battle, though they put up significant resistance, the strength of which was extensively underplayed by both the German and Allied propaganda machines; the Germans wanted to appear stronger, and the Allies wanted to have an excuse for their complete military incompetence.
This is where the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact comes in. As per the agreement, Germany wasn't the only country to invade Poland; the Soviets invaded from the east shortly after the Germans invaded from the West. As strong as it's resistance was, Poland had no chance to defend against both powers, given that their primary defensive lines were rivers, which, obviously, can't be used for defense both ways. That should be the final nail in the coffin of the idea that the Polish government might somehow be sympathetic to or allied with Communism.
That said, the importance of the establishment of the motivations and allegiances of the Polish government lies in the understanding and interpretation of the actions of the Polish people and government, as well as the original documentation of the time. Early in the documentary, David Cole claims "there's no picture, plan, or wartime document dealing with homicidal gas chambers or a plan to exterminate the Jews" [12:56]; something that is simply not true. There is documentation from the Polish underground detailing it; evidence that was transmitted to the Government-in-exile relatively early in the war, and suppressed by the Western Allies. For this, we turn to Pilecki's Report.
In 1939, after Poland was defeated, Major Jan Włodarkiewicz and cavalry captain Witold Pilecki founded the Secret Polish Army. In 1940, Pilecki devised and presented a plan to infiltrate Auschwitz, gather intelligence, and organize the inmates to resist. This plan was accepted, and he got himself arrested and placed into the camp. He managed to organize a few inmates, and managed to get communications sent from the Camp to his superiors. His reports detailed atrocities taking place there; he requested that the allies drop supplies or troops into the camp to enable an organized resistance (as the inmates were not strong enough to conduct an effective resistance alone). In 1943, he escaped the camp and wrote "Raport W.", a thorough and detailed report of the camp, one which was signed by the other members involved in the operation, as his prior communications were downplayed or ignored by the Western Allies.
To be fair to Cole, this report was not published in any form until 2000, and not in English until 2012. That said, this documentary, as per admittance in the documentary, is not proof that the Holocaust didn't happen. The video does point out what is now commonly understood, accepted, and taught; that evidence of the specifics of the Holocaust has been manipulated, and, in some instances, fabricated. That said, as I implied before, the two greatest types of evidence we possess, and, frankly, the only evidence possible and trustworthy, is documentation from the time and reports from those that were there. As to the latter, there is sizable room for error; eye witness reports are notorious for failures, and, in such an experience as traumatic as reported, there is significant room for confused distortion. On top of that, it is more or less impossible for an eye-witness to have or provide accurate death tolls first hand. That is why the Pilecki report is valuable; it is a very deliberate report where details were taken at the time they happened, not recalled and written years later.
Those documents, combined with those of the period, and an analysis of other motivations and actions we can verify, are the only ways you could possibly prove such things.
For example; Cole focuses intently on the gas chambers as a supposed proof; yet, the failure in that is that no physical instance of a gas chamber would be proof to one that is truly skeptical. After all, if the Soviets had staged the whole thing, would it be hard to believe that they would have made a gas chamber themselves, executed people in it, and then presented it as evidence? For that matter, if the Soviets were so intent on fabrication, and the Poles so complicit, why wouldn't they have gone more over the top? Why not fill the room for days with Gas in order to stain the walls blue, something that would be an obviously easy way of improving a fabrication. Regardless; it would not be accepted as evidence, and indeed, alone, it is not suitable evidence.
See, the biggest thing to realize here, and that Cole appears to realize as per later interviews (such as the one I sent the quote from; and, to be clear, you believe it may be fabricated, yet he would have had ample opportunity to reverse that statement later, as he reversed his acceptance of the mainstream argument in a later book of his.) is that the issue is not black and white. There is no prove or disprove for most of it; small pieces, yes, but not the whole of it. Most evidence would be anecdotal or subject to propaganda, which can have a whole variety of motivations both for the exaggeration and for the suppression of the actions. It is very possible that figures are wrong, or details of testimonies inaccurate; that is why said figures are presented as estimates.
While I have not personally read it, I will put forth as counter-evidence three different sources:
If you can find refutations to their primary claims or arguments, I would appreciate those here. I don't mean "this isn't right" or things like that; I mean proper documentation or evidence that proves each explicitly to the contrary.
As a closing note; Witold Pilecki's report is not Communist propaganda. After the "liberation" and reoccupation of Poland by the Soviets, Witold continued the underground resistance to the Soviet occupational government. For that, he joined the death count of the thousands if not millions of Poles mercilessly murdered by the Soviet Union.
Apologies for any errors or mistakes; this post took me over two hours to source and write, and I'm just about out of characters, as well.
"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to." (Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)"
Do note the date