What's worse, and what many don't know, is that there are at least three mods over there which are the fifth column that lead to/encouraged the subs downfall. It was by their design, and they have the full backing of the Admins. Hell, I suspect 1 of them to actually be an admin's alt. I've discussed this with Axo and a few other mods numerous times and it was always basically: "Our hands are tied".