But I wouldn't say capitalism is at fault. Greed is not a side effect of capitalism...it exists in all economic systems from what I have seen.

Of course greed is not side effect of capitalism. Probllem is that existing version of capitalism encourage greed.

Communists are greedy too.

Socialism (at least USSR implementation) had drawback with quality, and reason is other than greed. Quality is not important in socialism, because there is no any motivation for quality in regular manufacturing. It does not matter, will something be crappy or high-quality, in any case reward will be the same, output will be consumed in any case, and broken crap will be replaced with another crap. No any reason for anybody to strive for quality. There was exceptions, of course, but it was for high-tech or military things where quality is a must. For regular goods quality was just irrelevant.

So both, known socialism and capitalism does not encourage quality. Add to that customer stupidity and effect of marketing, and we are completely fucked.

Most troubling thing that this situaltion with quality could not be attributed to some evil elites or whatever. It is inherent problem of any known system ever implemented in reality.

Yet another thing in this rabbit hole. Imagine economy that produce things only of exceptional quality. Obviously, such economy will need much less manufacturing. Car you dad bought will serve your grand kids, no need to replace your home appliances from time to time and so on. Manufacturing will be needed only to supply population grow and rare replacement, say after natural disasters or accidents. But for whatever reason finding such economy is not among the goals of all that "sustainability", "green" crowd. On the opposite - they want one-time-use "biodegradeable" goods economy with obvious enormous manufacturing. And it is not about profits, quality driven economy could be as profitable, as any other one, just with another structure of profits.

Weird. There is definitely something big in that "quality driven economy" question we run into in our conversation.

But I wouldn't say capitalism is at fault. Greed is not a side effect of capitalism...it exists in all economic systems from what I have seen.

Of course greed is not side effect of capitalism. Probllem is that existing version of capitalism encourage greed.

Communists are greedy too.

Socialism (at least USSR implementation) had drawback with quality other than greed. Quality is not important in socialism, because there is no any motivation for quality in regular manufacturing. It does not matter, will something be crappy or high-quality, in any case reward will be the same, output will be consumed in any case, and broken crap will be replaced with another crap. No any reason for anybody to strive for quality. There was exceptions, of course, but it was for high-tech or military things where quality is a must. For regular goods quality was just irrelevant.

So both, known socialism and capitalism does not encourage quality. Add to that customer stupidity and effect of marketing, and we are completely fucked.

Most troubling thing that this situaltion with quality could not be attributed to some evil elites or whatever. It is inherent problem of any known system ever implemented in reality.

Yet another thing in this rabbit hole. Imagine economy that produce things only of exceptional quality. Obviously, such economy will need much less manufacturing. Car you dad bought will serve your grand kids, no need to replace your home appliances from time to time and so on. Manufacturing will be needed only to supply population grow and rare replacement, say after natural disasters or accidents. But for whatever reason finding such economy is not among the goals of all that "sustainability", "green" crowd. On the opposite - they want one-time-use "biodegradeable" goods economy with obvious enormous manufacturing. And it is not about profits, quality driven economy could be as profitable, as any other one, just with another structure of profits.

Weird. There is definitely something big in that "quality driven economy" question we run into in our conversation.