Sure but what does this prove? That Jacob was referred to as goy before he received the title Israel? I mean, it makes sense that there was a point where Israel started, just like Abraham was a pagan Canaanite before he was anointed by Melchizedek.

I was playing dumb - I know what SwampRanger was getting at and I know his dispensational views. He was obviously being dishonest by saying Israel IS a goy too. It's similar to saying Christ wasn't a Christian - that's a false argument treading on semantics. Jacob is the first person who differentiated from the category goy and created a new category Israel just like Christ created a new category of Christian.

Sure but what does this prove? That Jacob was referred to as goy before he received the title Israel? I mean, it makes sense that there was a point where Israel started, just like Abraham was a pagan Canaanite before he was anointed by Melchizedek.

I was playing dumb - I know what SwampRanger was getting at and I know his dispensational views. He was obviously being dishonest by saying Israel IS a goy too. It's similar to saying Christ wasn't a Christian - that's a false argument threading on semantics. Jacob is the first person who differentiated from the category goy and created a new category Israel just like Christ created a new category of Christian.

Sure but what does this prove? That Jacob was referred to as goy before he received the title Israel? I mean, it makes sense that there was a point where Israel started, just like Abraham was a pagan Canaanite before he was anointed by Melchizedek.