Thanks u/Plemethrock
We can have a discussion on whether or not free will exists. Discuss if every action we do is already predetermined by how our brain is wired, with the environment around us being the inputs.
We can also have a discussion on whether or not humans have souls and analyze the evidence for and against us just being our bodies
(I made an error and had to repost, apologies)
I believe humans have souls and my evidence is biblical which i'm not sure many in here appreciate as a source. I also believe free will exists because God declared it.....correct me if i'm wrong about people not seeing the Bible as a trusted source.
Where did God declare it? The Bible in fact says the opposite that God has numbered all your days before you were born (Psalm 139), that he directs everyone's steps and the apparently random casting of lots (Proverbs 16) and that God creates people for the purpose of saving them or sending them to hell (Romans 9).
Note that free will is not the same as the ability to make choices or personal accountability. Romans 9 says that God holds people accountable even though their choices were predetermined (like the hardening of Pharaoh's heart by God). If one wishes to claim that a person's choices being predetermined entails that they are not morally accountable for their choices then this needs to be argued rather than assumed like free will proponents always do.
I've been under the impression that evil things occur in this world because God gave us free will. I do agree that God has seen past present and future but would that HAVE to mean free will doesn't exist?
If God knew the future when he created the world then he created things knowing that they would devolve into evil. So then God purposely went ahead and caused all the evil in the world. Does that make God evil? I don't think so, because I think this decision could be justified by the good also caused, but most people aren't comfortable with God being the author of evil.
The idea that God merely permits evil doesn't make sense given that God set everything up knowing how it would turn out, meaning he actively caused everything we witness, not merely permitting it.
As to whether free will exists, that depends how you want to define it and what other things are true. See my top-level comment on this post.
A loving father doesn't coddle his children and make them weak. So why wouldn't our Heavenly Father be the same and give us things to struggle against and grow stronger?
God created all things good. His foreknowledge doesn't make Him an accomplice. What you're saying is basically this: you having children makes you evil, because you have them while knowing they will inevitably suffer and experience evil. But having children is still a net good and you go ahead. What appears bad to us, God uses to make good. Christ was betrayed and crucified but out of this a much greater good came to the world. This is how God operates and us having limited knowledge means we can't foresee and judge how thing ultimately end up. God can do only good because that's His nature.
No, that's a common mistake when critiquing theodicy (problem of evil). Knowing something in advance doesn't make you the cause of it. You conceive of only one type of causality (the domino effect one) - this is the result of materialism being the ruling paradigm in our modern world. But there are other types of causality that were widely accepted before metaphysics was done away with. Humans are secondary causal agents, meaning our will is separate from God's will and what we cause in the world is separate from God's causes.
There's no love without free will but free will inevitably leads to the possibility of evil (not choosing the good). God made us in His image having free will and being capable of love, even at the cost of evil and suffering entering His creation. Therefore love is greater than evil and triumphs in the end when all evil will be destroyed at the final judgement.
The eastern philosophies deal with this quite elegantly imo. They divide things into:
-The Will of Heaven, aka Tianming - this is the path laid down for each soul by God. Call it Destiny, Fate, Predestination, whatever.
-Karma - this is a result or effect of the free will choices we make over our lifetime
So if life is a “Choose your own adventure book” that God authored for us (Will of Heaven), our karma is simply the journey we took along the way
Free will of choice can only operate in-between over/under aka as above/so below aka at the center of balance....others suggest good vs evil to tempt choice into imbalance aka against one another.
Good or evil implies a measurement TAKEN (possession) while ignoring God GIVEN (impression) choice. Given implies knowledge (perception); taking implies forbidden knowledge (suggestion).
Agree implies versus disagree aka a conflict binding free will of choice into imbalance against one another.
God implies delineation given...suggested past; present and future implies measurements taken. One cannot take without ignoring given.
While alive (present)...one cannot perceive ones inception (past) or death (future). Others suggest past and future to invert PRESENCE into PRESENT...the former implies ones essence within motion, while the latter represents an affixed position.
Free cannot "have"; hold onto "meaning" or "do nothing (doesn't)" without contradicting itself aka without binding itself.
Others tempts free will of choice with nothing; meaning and things to have into taking a chance...for the price of given choice.
Neither having; meaning, nor doing nothing represents a natural state, but artificial descriptions to distract from nature...only ones free will of choice can discern the difference between reality (perception) and fiction (suggestion).