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Manson 1969 murders.. most people think of Roman Polanski's, 8 and a half month, pregnant wife Sharon Tate, who was killed at the house near Bel Air. Like the, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (2019) movie. There was another couple murdered in a mansion, the next night, that they don't talk about.
posted ago by newfunturistic ago by newfunturistic +5 / -0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tate%E2%80%93LaBianca_murders

most people are familiar with the tate stuff but what's this about the next day

The Wikipedia article confirms that the murders occurred over two consecutive nights, with the LaBianca murders taking place on the second night (August 10, 1969).

While the first night involved Charles Manson Family members murdering five people (including Sharon Tate) at 10050 Cielo Drive, the next day's events focused on two victims at a different location:

Victims: Supermarket executive Leno LaBianca and his wife, Rosemary LaBianca, were murdered at their home at 3301 Waverly Drive in the Los Feliz section of Los Angeles.

Perpetrators: Charles Manson drove the four participants from the previous night (Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Linda Kasabian), plus new members Leslie Van Houten and Clem Grogan, to the area.

Manson's Involvement: Manson, allegedly displeased with how the first night's murders went, first entered the house and tied up the couple. He then left, instructing Tex Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Leslie Van Houten to carry out the killings.

Method: Leno LaBianca was stabbed multiple times, and the word "WAR" was carved into his abdomen. Rosemary LaBianca was also stabbed multiple times.

The "Sign": Krenwinkel used the victims' blood to write "Rise" and "Death to pigs" on the walls and "Helter Skelter" on the refrigerator door. She also left a carving fork in Leno LaBianca's stomach and a steak knife in his throat.

what were the motives for the first night's murders.. why there

The motives for the first night's murders (the Tate murders) were complex and driven by Charles Manson's cult ideology and personal grudges.

Motive: Starting "Helter Skelter" The primary motive, as interpreted by the prosecution and widely believed, was Manson's apocalyptic vision known as "Helter Skelter." Manson believed a race war was imminent and that the murders would serve as a catalyst, making it appear as though Black militants were killing wealthy white people. He hoped this would spark the race war, after which he and the Family would emerge from hiding to rule the world. The messages written in the victims' blood (like "pig" on the door of the Tate residence and "Death to pigs" and "Helter Skelter" at the LaBianca residence the next night) were intended to look like they were committed by Black Panther-style militants.

The Specific Location: 10050 Cielo Drive The house was targeted primarily because of the previous occupant, not the victims themselves.

The home was the former residence of music producer Terry Melcher, the son of Doris Day, who had previously shown interest in recording Charles Manson's music but ultimately refused to sign him to a record deal.

Manson had a personal grievance against Melcher and the Hollywood establishment he felt rejected him. Sending his followers to that specific address was an act of violence intended to strike out at the "establishment" and the people he blamed for his failures.

Although Melcher had moved out by August 1969, Manson sent his followers to the house to "totally destroy everyone inside," carrying out a punitive and symbolic attack.

what were the motives for the next day murders.. why there and why those people?

The motive for the LaBianca murders on the second night (August 10, 1969) was directly linked to the broader, chaotic vision of Charles Manson.

The key factors for the second night were:

  1. Re-Committing to "Helter Skelter" Manson was reportedly displeased with the chaotic and messy nature of the Tate murders the night before. He felt his followers had lost control and didn't leave a clear enough "sign" to start the apocalyptic race war he called "Helter Skelter."

Manson's Goal: He decided to accompany the group to show them "how to do it" and ensure a more gruesome, symbolic, and convincing crime that could be blamed on "Black militants."

The Signs Left: In the LaBianca home, Manson's followers wrote messages in the victims' blood that were much more explicit than the previous night's: "DEATH TO PIGS," "RISE," and the misspelled "HEALTER SKELTER" on the refrigerator. Leno LaBianca also had the word "WAR" carved into his abdomen and a carving fork left protruding from his stomach. These details were meant to be more sensational and incendiary.

  1. Why That Location and Those People? Unlike the Tate residence, which was chosen due to a personal grudge against the former occupant (Terry Melcher), the LaBianca residence and its occupants were seemingly randomly chosen to fulfill the "Helter Skelter" mandate.

Random Victims of the "Establishment": Leno LaBianca (a grocery store executive) and his wife Rosemary were targeted primarily because they were affluent, white, and successful—fitting Manson's general description of "pigs" or members of the "establishment" he wanted killed.

The Location's Significance: The house at 3301 Waverly Drive was located next door to a home where Manson and Family members had attended a party the previous year. Manson may have had a familiarity with the area, or simply directed the group to cruise the neighborhoods until a suitable target was found. The LaBiancas themselves had no connection to Manson or his followers.

In summary, the LaBianca murders were a second, more directed attempt by Charles Manson to execute his twisted vision and initiate the "Helter Skelter" race war by creating a copycat crime scene that police would attribute to a different group.

Looking at the place next door.. what is this cross design?

(Had uploaded file, but adding whatever I uploaded to imgur so you can see what I'm talking about)

https://i.imgur.com/XnAAOaL.jpeg

The cross design visible in the aerial view of the property next door to the former LaBianca house (3301/3311 Waverly Drive) is a simplified Maltese Cross.

While the LaBianca victims were not connected to this symbol, the design itself is globally recognized and has specific associations:

Maltese Cross: The symbol is characterized by four 'V' shapes joining at the center, with eight points in total.

Primary Association: Today, the Maltese Cross is most famously recognized as the symbol of the fire service and firefighters around the world. Its association with firefighting dates back to the Knights Hospitaller during the Crusades.

In the context of the Los Feliz neighborhood, this design is likely a decorative element on the patio of the neighboring property, often used in landscaping or paving. It does not appear to have any documented connection to the historical events of the 1969 murders.

no it's a large religious compound next door

You are absolutely right to point out that it is a large religious compound. My previous assumption, based purely on the visible symbol, was incomplete.

The large property complex next door to the former LaBianca residence (3301/3311 Waverly Drive) is the Saint Columban's Foreign Mission Society.

Identity: It is a Catholic missionary organization.

History: The grand compound, originally built in 1929, was acquired by the Saint Columban's Foreign Missionary Society in the late 1950s, and priests from the order still reside there.

The Cross Design: The cross design you observed in the aerial view is most likely an architectural or decorative feature, such as a skylight, paving pattern, or garden feature, installed by either the mission society or a previous owner. Given the religious nature of the current occupants (a Catholic missionary order), a large cross-shaped design in the architecture or landscaping would be a fitting symbol. While the specific style resembles a Maltese Cross, it is used by a variety of groups, and in this location, it is a prominent religious/architectural feature on the adjacent property.

it's pretty big area the cross bricks.. don't the knights of malta use that maltese cross?

Yes, the Knights of Malta (formally the Sovereign Military Order of Malta) absolutely use the Maltese Cross.

The Maltese Cross has deep historical and religious significance, which explains why a variation of it might be used at a Catholic missionary compound.

  1. Knights of Malta and the Maltese Cross The Maltese Cross—known for its distinctive eight-pointed design—is the central and official symbol of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM), which traces its roots back to the medieval Knights Hospitaller (or Knights of St. John).

Origin: The eight-pointed cross was originally associated with the Hospital of St. John in Jerusalem, which was run by the religious order that evolved into the Knights Hospitaller.

Name: The cross became known as the Maltese Cross after the Knights established their sovereign headquarters on the island of Malta in 1530.

Symbolism: The eight points of the cross are traditionally said to symbolize the eight Beatitudes (from the Sermon on the Mount) or the eight obligations/aspirations of the Knights (e.g., to live in truth, to have faith, to be merciful, etc.).

  1. Connection to the Los Feliz Compound The property next door to the former LaBianca house is the Saint Columban's Foreign Mission Society, a Catholic missionary group.

While there is no direct, formal connection between the Saint Columban's Mission Society and the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, the use of a prominent cross design, even one resembling the Maltese Cross, is very logical because:

Shared Christian Motif: Both organizations are Catholic orders. The cross, in general, is the universal symbol of Christianity, and the eight-pointed cross has been adopted by many Catholic and chivalric orders throughout history.

Architectural Element: A large, geometric cross pattern made of brick or stone is a common design element in the courtyards or patios of grand historic homes and religious institutions. It serves as a decorative, but also spiritually relevant, focal point for the compound.

no, you got shenanigans going on with the knights of malta, in malta, over the years

That's an interesting point. While the Knights of Malta—or the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM), which is their official title today—are primarily known for their current global humanitarian work, their long history does involve several periods of internal shenanigans and significant conflict.

Here are a couple of the most prominent areas of controversy over the years:

  1. Historical Tensions with the Maltese People (16th–18th Century) During the nearly 270 years (1530 to 1798) that the Knights ruled the island of Malta, there were recurring tensions:

Exclusivity: The Order was composed of noblemen from different European "Langues" (linguistic groups/regions) and, for a long time, Maltese locals (even the nobility) were often excluded from the highest ranks of the Order itself. This led to resentment among the native population.

Dissatisfaction with Rule: By the late 18th century, the Knights were seen by some as an increasingly backward and autocratic ruling class. Growing poverty and discontent, combined with the spread of modernist, revolutionary ideas from Europe, led to friction.

The French Takeover: This simmering tension is a key reason why Napoleon's forces were able to take the island so easily in 1798. Many local Maltese were initially welcoming of the French, and even some of the Knights defected, as the Order's rule had become deeply unpopular.

  1. Recent Internal and Vatican Conflicts (21st Century) In the modern era, the SMOM has faced very high-profile internal conflicts that have drawn the direct intervention of the Vatican:

The Contraceptive Scandal (2016-2017): This was a major global news story. It centered on the firing of the Grand Chancellor, Albrecht Freiherr von Boeselager, by the then-Grand Master, Fra' Matthew Festing. The conflict was sparked by the revelation that the Order's humanitarian arm, Malteser International, had been involved in distributing condoms in parts of the developing world as part of a public health campaign to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS.

This led to a serious conflict over the Order's moral and religious adherence to Catholic doctrine and triggered a major constitutional crisis.

The Outcome: Pope Francis intervened directly, appointed a commission, accepted the resignation of the Grand Master, and later reinstated the Grand Chancellor. This signaled the Holy See's ultimate authority over the Order, despite the SMOM's status as a sovereign entity in international law.

Constitutional Reform: The Vatican has also continued to press for major reforms to the Order's constitution and governance to ensure its religious nature is prioritized.

So, you're right—while the Cross itself is an ancient symbol of service, the organization behind it has had a long and often contentious history, both locally in Malta and more recently within the global Catholic structure.

[continued in comments]

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