Again, not quite correct, because Chinese have been caught in "paper mills"
They also have "electronics mills", "kitchenware mills", even "car mills". That's what they good in. Of course they will have "paper mills". And if they see that only number of publications and citations valued, they will go for it, not for quality. Expecially taking in account that western scientists do exactly the same for decades.
Quality of Soviet scientific publications was order of magnitude higher, until western "rules" arrived on USSR fall. And now we have same stream of useless, never reproduced papers and so publications/citations race for the sole goal of higher number of publications and citations.
I think around 80% of modern scientific papers should be retracted, regardless of country of origin.
I always wondered why even papers that was not confirmed by later experiments never retracted or at least disclaimered that they was found false. F.e. in particle physics. all that papers with new particle predictions that was never confirmed even on LHC, despite all conditions described in paper was met, are still there, like nothing happened and still cited and their authors accounted as valued ones.
Also, this passage from the article:
That proportion is an order of magnitude higher than China’s retraction rate, and 50 times the global average.
does not mean that there are 50 times more fraudlent chineese papers. It means that chineese papers retracted 50 times more often. That could easily mean that same western fraudlent articles just not retracted for political/financial/whatever reasons.
Also, biology and medicine is a very corrupted area. If Chineese publish articles that could potentially harm western BigPharma, then they will be retractded by western journals, because they depend highly on western BigPharma.
Retraction also does not mean that article is inherently fraudlent. It could be just counter-narrative f.e.
Recall that ivermectin papers. Once it become a threat to BigPharma, it nearly disappeared from publications, and many articles was retracted, despite being valid and even replicated.
Well, I was admittedly unaware of the Soviet problem. But there is an issue you're missing, if a paper mill shits out a ton of papers, more papers means more retractions. Further, they will invariably be of lower quality and given the Chinese propensity to lie, more papers means more fraudulent ones.
You mistakingly suppose that Chineese lie. They don't.
They see, that only number of publications and citations is valued in a modern world. So, they just do what is valued. That simple.
If the world had valued practical usefulness of scientific paper (as was in USSR - you had to show actual practical usefulness to get your publication accepted, that's why many abstract matematicians and theorists flee to the West, meanwhile), then we would have observed Chineese "paper mill" prodicing papers with practical usefulness.
It's interesting that many people account Chineese as people like them, just doing wrong things. That's not like that. Chineese are completely different civilisation, with completely different values. They are not like us. One of the difference - they always assume that customer always know what he want, and hold all responsibility for all possible consequences of his wishes, and it's not Chineese business to argue something. If customer want something as cheap as possible then
Chineese assume that customer perfectly understand that he will get what he want in whole. If customer want things as cheap as possible, it is totally customer responsibility for the lowest possible quality of this things. He knows better, he understand he will get total crap for that price, and it is completely his deliberate decision. Chineese will satisfy his request without any question.
If customer (the world scientific community in our topic) value publications and citations, then Chineese will make exactly publications and citations. If the world scientific community valued quality more that quantity, then there will be muc less chineese papers with much higher quality.
It is very strange for me, that very few people understand that simple thing about Chineese and most blame them for doing exact things most want from them. Buy "iPhone" for $50 and then complain about "lying Chineese" when they get exactly what they wanted - "iPhone" for $50, that is different from one for $1000 - it is just insane.
They also have "electronics mills", "kitchenware mills", even "car mills". That's what they good in. Of course they will have "paper mills". And if they see that only number of publications and citations valued, they will go for it, not for quality. Expecially taking in account that western scientists do exactly the same for decades.
Quality of Soviet scientific publications was order of magnitude higher, until western "rules" arrived on USSR fall. And now we have same stream of useless, never reproduced papers and so publications/citations race for the sole goal of higher number of publications and citations.
I think around 80% of modern scientific papers should be retracted, regardless of country of origin.
I always wondered why even papers that was not confirmed by later experiments never retracted or at least disclaimered that they was found false. F.e. in particle physics. all that papers with new particle predictions that was never confirmed even on LHC, despite all conditions described in paper was met, are still there, like nothing happened and still cited and their authors accounted as valued ones.
Also, this passage from the article:
does not mean that there are 50 times more fraudlent chineese papers. It means that chineese papers retracted 50 times more often. That could easily mean that same western fraudlent articles just not retracted for political/financial/whatever reasons.
Also, biology and medicine is a very corrupted area. If Chineese publish articles that could potentially harm western BigPharma, then they will be retractded by western journals, because they depend highly on western BigPharma.
Retraction also does not mean that article is inherently fraudlent. It could be just counter-narrative f.e.
Recall that ivermectin papers. Once it become a threat to BigPharma, it nearly disappeared from publications, and many articles was retracted, despite being valid and even replicated.
Well, I was admittedly unaware of the Soviet problem. But there is an issue you're missing, if a paper mill shits out a ton of papers, more papers means more retractions. Further, they will invariably be of lower quality and given the Chinese propensity to lie, more papers means more fraudulent ones.
You mistakingly suppose that Chineese lie. They don't.
They see, that only number of publications and citations is valued in a modern world. So, they just do what is valued. That simple.
If the world had valued practical usefulness of scientific paper (as was in USSR - you had to show actual practical usefulness to get your publication accepted, that's why many abstract matematicians and theorists flee to the West, meanwhile), then we would have observed Chineese "paper mill" prodicing papers with practical usefulness.
It's interesting that many people account Chineese as people like them, just doing wrong things. That's not like that. Chineese are completely different civilisation, with completely different values. They are not like us. One of the difference - they always assume that customer always know what he want, and hold all responsibility for all possible consequences of his wishes, and it's not Chineese business to argue something. If customer want something as cheap as possible then
Chineese assume that customer perfectly understand that he will get what he want in whole. If customer want things as cheap as possible, it is totally customer responsibility for the lowest possible quality of this things. He knows better, he understand he will get total crap for that price, and it is completely his deliberate decision. Chineese will satisfy his request without any question.
If customer (the world scientific community in our topic) value publications and citations, then Chineese will make exactly publications and citations. If the world scientific community valued quality more that quantity, then there will be muc less chineese papers with much higher quality.
It is very strange for me, that very few people understand that simple thing about Chineese and most blame them for doing exact things most want from them. Buy "iPhone" for $50 and then complain about "lying Chineese" when they get exactly what they wanted - "iPhone" for $50, that is different from one for $1000 - it is just insane.
"You mistakingly suppose that Chineese lie. They don't."
I ignored everything you said after that, because if you're wrong on that, why waste the time on anything else you wrote.
How exactly did you, personally, find out that Chineese lie? Show me one real example.