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posted ago by throwaway_27_ ago by throwaway_27_ +44 / -17

I noticed some folks in c/Conspiracies/p/15IXWXnIo6 arguing about the shape of the Earth. It doesn't look to be in bad faith, so I create this post for anyone interested.

Personally, looking at the Sun (ouch) and the Moon is enough for me.

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cribbage 17 points ago +23 / -6

I think there are many compelling reasons to look into flat earth.

The suggestion that earth's atmosphere is held together by gravity, while it sits next to an infinite vacuum simply defies anything we know about physics. If space is vacuum it would be impossible for our atmosphere to exists without a solid barrier ("firmament") containing it.

It is absurd to suggest that the moon orbits around the earth in a perfectly predictable manner, like it was on rails, and this is from "gravity". Meanwhile the earth orbits around a sun in the same manner, in an exact same pattern for 1000s of years. all these forces at work moving balls millions of miles without one iota of decay or change. invisible strings is a more convincing argument than "gravity". Any scientific experiment regarding centrifugal force or attempting to model these type of orbits will invariably show decay and the 2 objects eventually collide or they fly away from one another. the predictable and reliable movements of the bodies in the sky simply has not been adequately explained by modern "science"

while not a proof of flat earth, the fact is NASA has been faking their space activities for 50+ years. They fake their photos of planets and the earth. Their videos of moon landings do not hold up as believable. There are videos showing fakes missions with the space shuttles. They are caught faking stuff with green screens on the ISS to this day. If they can't show us real videos and photos of the globe and space, why not? Its a valid starting point to question what else we are lied to about.

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InfidelCastro11 11 points ago +17 / -6

If space is vacuum it would be impossible for our atmosphere to exists without a solid barrier ("firmament") containing it.

Gas has mass. There's no reason gravity should have no effect on it.

all these forces at work moving balls millions of miles without one iota of decay or change

Strawman. Orbits do change and decay. Why argue against something you don't understand. The actual proposed orbits are way more fucked up looking than what you saw in textbooks, all that shit is dumbed down for kids and retards.

It is an odd coincidence that the moon orbits at a rate that keeps the same side facing us at all times. Another odd coincidence is the sun being exactly far enough away from us to be the same size as the moon in the sky

NASA has been faking their space activities for 50+ years

Yep, seems that way.

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aaarrrrjunas1 12 points ago +12 / -0

im offended at your use of "retard."

i identify as retard.

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aaarrrrjunas1 3 points ago +3 / -0

the updoots are sending me mixed messages.

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VicariousJambi 1 point ago +1 / -0

Don't worry, only true intellectuals can give themselves shit and call themselves retarded.

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Afks 12 points ago +13 / -1

“Stop noticing things”

  • nasa
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deleted 1 point ago +3 / -2
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InfidelCastro11 1 point ago +3 / -2

No, there isn't. A vacuum is just nothing. It's not a force, there's no reason it would rip away the atmosphere. You people really have no grasp of physics. If you have a particle floating in a vacuum, it will move towards a source of gravity. And stay there.

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Barrabbas 2 points ago +2 / -0

Gravity doesn't exist.

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VicariousJambi 1 point ago +3 / -2

Gas has mass. There's no reason gravity should have no effect on it.

So you're saying that a force of 9.8m/s², a force so weak that a bug can fly against it, is strong enough to hold off an infinite vacuum? Do I have that right?

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InfidelCastro11 1 point ago +3 / -2

You have no grasp of physics at all.

a force of 9.8m/s²

That's not a measurement of force. Try again

What happens when the bug stops flying? Wonder if that happens to things that aren't a bug too. "Things go up, so gravity not real" is a pretty braindead take. This whole thing would be more interesting if flat earthers had a coherent physics model, but you never have and never will.

hold off an infinite vacuum

You don't need to "hold off" a vacuum. It's not exerting force on anything. It helps to have some understanding of what you're trying to argue against.

Do things move if no force is being exerted on them?

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VicariousJambi 0 points ago +3 / -3

Ah so I guess you’re just gonna ignore the point. Alright.

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jack445566778899 0 points ago +5 / -5

Gas has mass. There's no reason gravity should have no effect on it.

There is if mass and gravitation are entirely mathematical fiction with no reality outside of equation! It is not coincidence that when combined they annihilate each other and return to the real and measured weight they began as!

Strawman

If it is a strawman, who are they falsely attributing the view to and when do they intend to burn it down for rhetorical purpose?

Another odd coincidence is the sun being exactly far enough away from us to be the same size as the moon in the sky

There are many such coincidences ;) The three body problem has no solution, nor did it ever.

I think I’ve invited you before, but all the same - please join us on the community I created to further explore, discuss, and exchange views on these topics!

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InfidelCastro11 5 points ago +7 / -2

There is if mass and gravitation are entirely mathematical fiction with no reality outside of equation

TIL things don't actually fall when I drop them, it's just an equation. Flat earthers are quick to dismiss something as fiction while never providing a working model of physics.

If it is a strawman

They're strawmanning the conventional model of space. You know this. You're just being obtuse. They said that it's absurd to suggest that orbits don't change, no model of space suggests that orbits don't change. It's just mind numbing ignorance of the opposite position.

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jack445566778899 5 points ago +7 / -2

TIL things don't actually fall when I drop them, it's just an equation.

Well you didn’t learn that from me!

Equations are just equations. Math is merely a descriptive symbolic language.

Phenomena, like falling for instance, are phenomena! They are real because we can observe and measure them, not because we can describe them in one language or another. Indeed we can describe many things (phenomena included) that do not exist to observe, and are not real. Gravitation and mass are two such examples. As I said, it is not coincidence that they annihilate one another and return to the real and measured weight they began as!

Flat earthers are quick to dismiss something as fiction while never providing a working model of physics.

I know that this has been your experience. In general, there are no flat earthers. You have been misinformed/misled by a psyop. I am a flat earth researcher, and I care about science deeply. There are good reasons and justifications for my statements that only require your interest and time to understand.

They're strawmanning the conventional model of space. You know this.

I think they are earnestly describing their understanding of the conventional astronomical model, and are not doing so for rhetorical purpose. A strawman is for the purpose of making your opponent in a debate look stupid by attributing false (and contrived) stupid views to them and then handily defeating (setting fire to the strawman/effigy) them to convince onlookers. I don’t think that is what they are doing here.

They said that it's absurd to suggest that orbits don't change, no model of space suggests that orbits don't change.

All the original ones do. Newtons did, for instance. That’s one of the reasons he invented our modern concept of the “vacuum of space”. He understood that if space were not entirely empty - then collision would upset and change the clockwork heavens which he knew from 1000’s of years of available astronomical recording did not take place. I am aware that modern models do suggest that orbits change over time, but there is precious little observation to actually support these assertions.

Archeoastronomy flatly refutes such assertions, as does the antikythera device and epicycles which are still used today for prediction of eclipses (and other things) in the most sophisticated models available.

It's just mind numbing ignorance of the opposite position.

That may be, but it isn’t a strawman (if the above is truly your view).

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Partofthepsyop 5 points ago +6 / -1

Read up on the electric universe model. The firmament is a plasma double layer created by massive voltage difference we can measure. Orbits are caused by electric currents in the interstellar plasma (space is not a vacuum).

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VicariousJambi 3 points ago +4 / -1

I've heard of the electric universe theory before but I haven't done a deep dive on it, can you recommend a documentary on it?

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Partofthepsyop 5 points ago +5 / -0

The Top 10 Reasons Why the Universe is Electric video series (Thunderbolts Project) on youtube or thunderbolts.info is a good place to start.

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VicariousJambi 1 point ago +1 / -0

Thanks, will look into it. Here's the link for anyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnfNuXiExQ

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throwaway_27_ [S] 3 points ago +4 / -1

the predictable and reliable movements of the bodies in the sky simply has not been adequately explained by modern "science"

While it can still accurately predict all Solar eclipses for this century. Can you provide an instance where the current understanding of things predicted things incorrectly?

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cribbage 9 points ago +10 / -1

My point is that we can accurately predict everything that happens in the sky - it runs like a clockwork that is quite knowable. What I am questioning is what we are told of how that reliability is maintained - i.e. "gravity" holding it all together at exact lengths and exact speeds that exactly repeat themselves year after year for 1000s of years. "gravity" as we know it would not achieve that sort of reliability and exactness, and would instead lead to a full decay of the orbit over time, or objects would eventually spin away from one another.

Also I should say this is not a flat-earth proof. I am only pointing out that our current models taught are just fairy tales and built on a house of cards. We needn't pretend that we know how the sky operates.

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VicariousJambi 5 points ago +6 / -1

I’ve heard this claimed many times, but no one’s ever actually linked me like a working 3d model (or video of the model rather) of the heliocentric solar system / galaxy with the planets and stars accurately spinning in the right patterns and such.

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Celest 1 point ago +3 / -2

Yes, too many variables, too perfect of an experience (physically, at least).

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VicariousJambi 3 points ago +3 / -0

Here's one.

Pseudo-Scientific Moon Mathe-Magic [3mins 20 Seconds]- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcsazyX1fwg

Here's another

Daylight Debunks the Globe [5mins 29 Seconds] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlNhPXCH5cA

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throwaway_27_ [S] 2 points ago +3 / -1

Since those are short videos, can you lay down the most important points from them here? Makes things easier to quote and respond to, and for everyone to follow.

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VicariousJambi 6 points ago +6 / -0

I'm not going to summarize a 3 and a 5 min video dude. People are going to either choose to watch them or not.

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CalradianEmperor 3 points ago +6 / -3

A vacuum is just a (near)-absence of anything that has mass and occupy volume...gases have mass and occupy volume, thus gravity has an effect on gases as it does on us.

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Celest 7 points ago +7 / -0

A gas (high pressure) will always fill a vacuum (low pressure) until pressure equalizes. You can't have the two next to each other.

Fun fact: this is also how vacuum cleaners work. A pressure drop is created within an inner chamber that forces the air outside (higher pressure) to rush into the vacuum cleaner.

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CalradianEmperor 2 points ago +4 / -2

Gravitational attraction between the gases in our atmosphere and the Earth prevents this from occurring.

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ChippingToe 1 point ago +2 / -1

You know how farts smell less as you move away? That's how the atmosphere works

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Celest 2 points ago +2 / -0

You move away?